Old fashioned? REALLY???

[crs996]

Originally Posted by HarleyGirl52874

I have a question, for all of you that think people shouldn't own a GSD if they don't work them some way. Do you think the breeder should't sell a dog to a family that wants just a family dog?

What is wrong with people wanting a GSD but not "working" it? Who are you to say somebody shouldn't own a dog that they want, will love take care of etc. because they choose not to do anything with it, other then a walk or play in the yard?

Family dogs are awesome, and a GSD can be a great one! One definition of "working" to me is obedience training. This is mentally challenging and stimulating for a working dog. Of course, I feel that a dog of any breed deserves to have a more fulfilling life with its owner by having at least basic OB. To me, fulfilling their needs is "love".

[Samba]

I believe they are still out there.

Now if we want military dogs in GSDs, it appears we might move from schutzhund to mondioring for an activity for GSDs that meet the military desires. I believe Malinois do very well in that activity, so it must play to these desired military service characteristics. These will be new fashioned GSDs for sure. They will different from working line GSDs and very very different from the popularly called "old fashioned" GSDs.

We shall see how long this military endeavor lasts. I know my personal police friends are anxious to leave their malinois and return to a working line GSD.

[HarleyGirl52874]

Originally Posted by crs996

Family dogs are awesome, and a GSD can be a great one! One definition of "working" to me is obedience training. This is mentally challenging and stimulating for a working dog. Of course, I feel that a dog of any breed deserves to have a more fulfilling life with its owner by having at least basic OB. To me, fulfilling their needs is "love".

I know they are awesome, I have 2 of them, yes they have had basic obedience, but that is as far as it will go, they will not be doing agility or schutzhund even though Kaiser would probably do really well in it. I don't think that makes me any less of an owner is my point, because I choose not to work my german shepherds.

[Castlemaid]

Originally Posted by HarleyGirl52874

I know they are awesome, I have 2 of them, yes they have had basic obedience, but that is as far as it will go, they will not be doing agility or schutzhund even though Kaiser would probably do really well in it. I don't think that makes me any less of an owner is my point, because I choose not to work my german shepherds.

You are right, it does not make you any less of an owner, - and when people are talking about the importance of working and titling GSDs, people are talking about breeders and breeding dogs - which is a different ball game all together.

[crs996]

Originally Posted by HarleyGirl52874

I know they are awesome, I have 2 of them, yes they have had basic obedience, but that is as far as it will go, they will not be doing agility or schutzhund even though Kaiser would probably do really well in it. I don't think that makes me any less of an owner is my point, because I choose not to work my german shepherds.

I'm not sure who said you were less of an owner for not doing more, it wasn't me because I do not believe that someone is less of an owner for not doing advanced dog sports. If your dogs have basic OB, they work with/for you everyday. If they are happy and fulfilled, that should be good enough for anyone.

Originally Posted by Castlemaid

You are right, it does not make you any less of an owner, - and when people are talking about the importance of working and titling GSDs, people are talking about breeders and breeding dogs - which is a different ball game all together.

Exactly.

[HarleyGirl52874]

Originally Posted by LaRen616

Lin

I agree with you and I disagree with you. I would never want to see a GSD become a "couch potato". But not everyone wants to do agility and other work with their GSD. I believe people should only get GSD's if they are "Go Getter" type people. Someone who loves long walks, hiking or jogging. Also not everyone wants to spend lots of money on putting their dogs in agility or herding or some other type work. I got a GSD because they are wonderful companion dogs, good watch dogs, very smart, easy to train and I cant forget BEAUTIFUL dogs. My dog loves TV (as do I) but we get out and do stuff. We are doing our own "Search Work" and I have to say that my dog is very good at it, but we are using treats and ourselves. We put him in a room, we grab a treat and drag it on the floor making loops and what not and then we hide it. We then let him out and tell him "find it" and he puts his nose to the ground and follows the trail to the treat. We also do it with ourselves, we rub all over a towel and we go hide then the person in control of him gives him the towel to smell and then we say "find it" and he comes and gets us. I would also like to make him a therapy dog. Anyways if everyone with GSD's did games like this then I wouldn't have a problem with them owning a GSD. But dont turn this excellent dog into a "couch potato"

This is the first one I could find, don't feel like going through every post to find the other, but it has also been said on here before about not getting a GSD if your not going to work it, and no nobody has told ME that I am less of an owner, but the general theme has been on the board many times to many people.

And not really is it two different ball games, this thread is about oversized, while I don't care for the ones from the site, family dogs. I just don't get what the big deal is with a family dog? Basically every dog was made for a purpose. A GSD with no titles is no less of a dog to me vs. one with titles.

Are there bad breeders out there breeding family dogs that shouldn't be, absolutely, are there titled dogs out there being breed that shouldn't be absolutely. If this person is producing good sound dogs, who cares if they work or not.

[Mrs.K]

Originally Posted by Samba

I believe they are still out there.

Now if we want military dogs in GSDs, it appears we might move from schutzhund to mondioring for an activity for GSDs that meet the military desires. I believe Malinois do very well in that activity, so it must play to these desired military service characteristics. These will be new fashioned GSDs for sure. They will different from working line GSDs and very very different from the popularly called "old fashioned" GSDs.

We shall see how long this military endeavor lasts. I know my personal police friends are anxious to leave their malinois and return to a working line GSD.

I don't blame them. From what I've seen in the dog clubs, those malis are not easy to handle pus some of them are a little crazy.

[crs996]

Originally Posted by HarleyGirl52874

This is the first one I could find, don't feel like going through every post to find the other, but it has also been said on here before about not getting a GSD if your not going to work it, and no nobody has told ME that I am less of an owner, but the general theme has been on the board many times to many people.

And not really is it two different ball games, this thread is about oversized, while I don't care for the ones from the site, family dogs. I just don't get what the big deal is with a family dog? Basically every dog was made for a purpose. A GSD with no titles is no less of a dog to me vs. one with titles.

Are there bad breeders out there breeding family dogs that shouldn't be, absolutely, are there titled dogs out there being breed that shouldn't be absolutely. If this person is producing good sound dogs, who cares if they work or not.

Ok I see what you mean now. There is nothing wrong with a family dog, but this was about breeders. I believe that a good GSD should be capable of working in whatever capacity AND be a family dog. Just because the parents of a litter have numerous titles and have proven that they are physically and mentally sound, does not mean that the puppies must follow suit and be titled, or that they will not make good family pets. However, some breeders are apparently breeding dogs based solely on looks, or "create" family pets by breeding the drive and working abilities out of the dogs, which does the breed a disservice. A properly bred GSD should be a a good family pet because they are versatile, NOT by breeding out their drives/working ability. The problem with some of these breeders is that they have not proven the dogs in any fashion, they have dogs that look like GSDs, but what beyond that?

Having a title does not guarantee that a dog is breedworthy, but there need to be some guidelines and standards in place. Basing a breeding program on dogs being "oversize and 120+ lbs" etc, is really not a breeding program at all.

[JKlatsky]

Originally Posted by HarleyGirl52874

If this person is producing good sound dogs, who cares if they work or not.

I don't think it's really a question of if they DO, so much as if they CAN. There are plenty of good dogs out there that exist just as the family pet. A good GSD is adaptable BUT should have an instinct to work. Much like a good hound should have an instinct for hunting or A good terrier for tenacity to kill rodents.

I also agree with previous posters that the GSD shouldn't be for people who want a couch potato. You don't have to do formal activities, but if you are not an active person interested in training their dog, this is probably not the dog for you. Part of what makes the GSD so special is the correct temperament. A non reactive couch potato that won't chase a ball and looks good laying on a dog bed by the fire may be what the average pet owner wants, but it is no more correct than the nervy hyper dog that some sport breeders produce.

And just because your pet (you in general, not in particular) happens to more closely fit the description of couch potato, doesn't mean your dog isn't wonderful for you. But it's not correct and shouldn't be bred.

Just my .02

[Samba]

OFA stats: Malinois 5.5% dysplastic GSD 19%. I know this is one of the things that people supplying working dogs like about the Mal.

GSDs have a higher incidence of dysplasia. If you breed lop-sidely for better hips in the GSD it is difficult to get production of other needed traits. This makes them less appealing to those supplying.

This added to the agility, small size, bite and engagement willingness, intense drive, work ethic etc. make that Mal appear to fit a working bill for some.

I don't see how this military dog decision makes a point for larger dog "lines" or against working GSD breeding really.

Every time I express the desire for such intensity in the GSD, I hear about niche breeding, ruining the breed, deviating from intended purpose because of a desire for extreme working characteristics. Should the GSD be bred to compare with Mal characteristics so they can claim U.S. military service credentials? Or does their rejection by the military rather point to working line GSD breeding having rather preserved the GSD as a GSD and not a Mal type dog?