Old fashioned? REALLY??? - Page 2

Mrs.K · 03-10-2010, 10:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by atravis

To be fair, BLEEP has been producing extremely temperamentally/physically sound dogs for years, and have a good reputation for producing excellent "family pet" type dogs.

Not saying its right or wrong, but they are not your typical "BYB" operation.

They do not claim to breed working or show animals, only extremely stable family pets. And thus far, that's held true.

Yeah, by charging 2000USD for frozen semen?
And people actually pay for that?
Holy cow... we seriously do something wrong.

How much do they charge for puppies?

And why did the link get removed?

atravis · 03-10-2010, 10:31 AM

Her website reads:

"My range in cost is generally between $1300 (females)& $1600(males)."

No clue why the semen costs more than the pups. Maybe that was a mistype?

fightin14 · 03-10-2010, 10:34 AM

[QUOTE]Nothing. Its just a marketing ploy, like "teacup" small dogs. The "old fashioned" GSD was smaller than todays! And I don't understand the obsession with "old fashioned" in general, breeding is done for a reason and thats to improve the breed!/QUOTE]

This is not always true, not all breeding does the breed good. Some of the American show lines are **** near crippled in my opinion.

Mrs.K · 03-10-2010, 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by atravis

Her website reads:

"My range in cost is generally between $1300 (females)& $1600(males)."

No clue why the semen costs more than the pups. Maybe that was a mistype?

I don't understand people that are willed to pay that kind of money for a dog that doesn't even have the real papers.

The puppy I bought costs 850 Euros (chipped and everything). Parents titled, champions, went to the world championships, great line... and it costs less than a female puppy from that

kennel and people pay for that?

atravis · 03-10-2010, 10:48 AM

I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with their practice.

But of all the crock "old fashion" GSD breeders out there,

is really the last one that should be picked on.

Now, do I, personally, think they are doing any big favors for the breed?

It depends. Not from a breeding standpoint, certainly not. A "goliath" dog the GSD is NOT, and was never meant to be.

But from from a PR standpoint? Everything I've ever heard about these dogs makes them out to be MONDO socially stable, wonderful for families, and just an all-around GOOD pet. There are plenty of "correctly" breed dogs that are like this too... but what's so wrong about tipping the odds further in our favor?

I would never own one. Not even remotly my kind of dog. But I'd rather a person who JUST wants a cool family pet go to someone like Royalair, rather than wind up with something that they aren't prepared to handle. It is, after all, the later that make a bad reputation for our breed.

Mrs.K · 03-10-2010, 11:02 AM

I am not trying to pick on them but they should take out the old-fashioned and do more research on the hip issue. Just because it's one hip doesn't mean that it can't be genetically.

I am not saying that they can't be socially stable. Kuddos for that BUT it is the way she's doing it.

If she likes large dogs, **** she can state that on her site and I wouldn't bug about it but selling them as old-fashioned is wrong in my book and leads to false conclusions. These dogs are not old-fashioned. If that's old-fashioned our dogs are from the last century.

She's taking one major thing away from them and something the Shepherd always had and that is agility. These dogs may be social and great family dogs but she's taking away everything the Shepherd stands for.

Not trying to pick on her... she may have great dogs but she's doing it the wrong way because they are everything but old-fashioned. At least be honest about it.

Doc · 03-10-2010, 11:05 AM

Like Chris said, for the bazillion time, the term "old fashion" has been beat to death in the forms - especially when there has been no real definition associated with it. Unfortunately, most people who dismiss this as a marketing ploy do not know the historical aspects of the German shepherd.

I refer to "old-fashion" German shepherds as the pre Klodo von Boxberg era. Before Klodo, the German shepherds were "bigger, taller" dogs. Especially the ones that were heavily bred on the Wurttemberg dogs. Jung and Tell von Kriminalulize were both substancial dogs most noted for high withers, straight backs, and long back legs. Being such, Max awarded the title to Boxberg in the 20's to buck the trend of bigger dogs - Boxberg being only 23" at the withers. It wasn't the only time Max awarded the title to a dog in hopes of finding some compromise. eventually, even Max altered his standard to give some range for height, knowing that many of the "bigger" dogs had superior traits that he liked.

So to state that the German shepherd has always been a smaller dog is factually wrong. I would much rather breed a German shepherd without the numerous health and temperament issues and not be to standard than to have a "standard" dog with health issues and nerve problems.

And yes, the German shepherd was a family memeber/pet - a working family member/pet that earned his keep or was desposed of. Horand was a horrible working dog - Max saved him from the farm to have as his pet.

robinhuerta · 03-10-2010, 11:11 AM

atravis,
The wrong issue with breeding....is breeding for "pets".
ALL dogs should be able to be "pets".....they are domestic canines.
When breeders choose to ignore the characteristics that a breed (of any kind) was bred "specifically" for....and choose to breed against it...this practise ruins the breed as a whole.
Breeders are supposed to breed to ensure the characteristics & temperament for the next generation...that is including size, structure & working ability.
Using the opinion of "breeding quality pets".....as a reason to breed...is destruction of a breed.
If a companion home wants to purchase a GSD dog/puppy....look for a responsible breeder, who's primary goal is to preserve the breed as it should be. That breeder can help place the perfect puppy for the prospective buyers.
After all......90% of all GSD puppies/dogs, live as loving family companions. The companion home reflects the reputation of the breed.
We as a society....use the term "quality pet puppies"...as IF it's a selling point....it SHOULD be an absolute.
Again...JMO....not directed to any specific breeders of any kind.

Mrs.K · 03-10-2010, 11:14 AM

@Doc: Well, than we talk about a different breed... to me old fashioned isn't a Shepherd that is as big and heavy as a big dane. Look at the father of German Shepherds. THAT is old fashioned!

robinhuerta · 03-10-2010, 11:16 AM

...excuse the misspelled words in my last post.....typed too fast, and didn't have spell-check on!.....

03-10-2010, 10:31 AM	#12 (permalink)
atravis Master Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Alabama Posts: 561	Her website reads: "My range in cost is generally between $1300 (females)& $1600(males)." No clue why the semen costs more than the pups. Maybe that was a mistype? __________________ Lex~ Mulder- black GSD [Dogster] [Pedigree]

03-10-2010, 10:48 AM	#15 (permalink)
atravis Master Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Alabama Posts: 561	I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with their practice. But of all the crock "old fashion" GSD breeders out there, is really the last one that should be picked on. Now, do I, personally, think they are doing any big favors for the breed? It depends. Not from a breeding standpoint, certainly not. A "goliath" dog the GSD is NOT, and was never meant to be. But from from a PR standpoint? Everything I've ever heard about these dogs makes them out to be MONDO socially stable, wonderful for families, and just an all-around GOOD pet. There are plenty of "correctly" breed dogs that are like this too... but what's so wrong about tipping the odds further in our favor? I would never own one. Not even remotly my kind of dog. But I'd rather a person who JUST wants a cool family pet go to someone like Royalair, rather than wind up with something that they aren't prepared to handle. It is, after all, the later that make a bad reputation for our breed. __________________ Lex~ Mulder- black GSD [Dogster] [Pedigree] Last edited by JeanKBBMMMAAN; 03-10-2010 at 02:55 PM. Reason: took kennel name out

03-10-2010, 11:02 AM	#16 (permalink)
Mrs.K Crowned Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 5,785	I am not trying to pick on them but they should take out the old-fashioned and do more research on the hip issue. Just because it's one hip doesn't mean that it can't be genetically. I am not saying that they can't be socially stable. Kuddos for that BUT it is the way she's doing it. If she likes large dogs, **** she can state that on her site and I wouldn't bug about it but selling them as old-fashioned is wrong in my book and leads to false conclusions. These dogs are not old-fashioned. If that's old-fashioned our dogs are from the last century. She's taking one major thing away from them and something the Shepherd always had and that is agility. These dogs may be social and great family dogs but she's taking away everything the Shepherd stands for. Not trying to pick on her... she may have great dogs but she's doing it the wrong way because they are everything but old-fashioned. At least be honest about it. __________________ www.dog-handler.net

03-10-2010, 11:11 AM	#18 (permalink)
robinhuerta Knighted Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Illinois Posts: 2,917	atravis, The wrong issue with breeding....is breeding for "pets". ALL dogs should be able to be "pets".....they are domestic canines. When breeders choose to ignore the characteristics that a breed (of any kind) was bred "specifically" for....and choose to breed against it...this practise ruins the breed as a whole. Breeders are supposed to breed to ensure the characteristics & temperament for the next generation...that is including size, structure & working ability. Using the opinion of "breeding quality pets".....as a reason to breed...is destruction of a breed. If a companion home wants to purchase a GSD dog/puppy....look for a responsible breeder, who's primary goal is to preserve the breed as it should be. That breeder can help place the perfect puppy for the prospective buyers. After all......90% of all GSD puppies/dogs, live as loving family companions. The companion home reflects the reputation of the breed. We as a society....use the term "quality pet puppies"...as IF it's a selling point....it SHOULD be an absolute. Again...JMO....not directed to any specific breeders of any kind. __________________ Huerta Hof German Shepherds www.teamhuertahof.com ....where breeding is still considered an art....

03-10-2010, 11:14 AM	#19 (permalink)
Mrs.K Crowned Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 5,785	@Doc: Well, than we talk about a different breed... to me old fashioned isn't a Shepherd that is as big and heavy as a big dane. Look at the father of German Shepherds. THAT is old fashioned! __________________ www.dog-handler.net

03-10-2010, 10:34 AM	#13 (permalink)
fightin14 Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Middle Tennessee Posts: 120	[QUOTE]Nothing. Its just a marketing ploy, like "teacup" small dogs. The "old fashioned" GSD was smaller than todays! And I don't understand the obsession with "old fashioned" in general, breeding is done for a reason and thats to improve the breed!/QUOTE] This is not always true, not all breeding does the breed good. Some of the American show lines are **** near crippled in my opinion.

03-10-2010, 11:05 AM	#17 (permalink)
Doc Elite Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 1,570	Like Chris said, for the bazillion time, the term "old fashion" has been beat to death in the forms - especially when there has been no real definition associated with it. Unfortunately, most people who dismiss this as a marketing ploy do not know the historical aspects of the German shepherd. I refer to "old-fashion" German shepherds as the pre Klodo von Boxberg era. Before Klodo, the German shepherds were "bigger, taller" dogs. Especially the ones that were heavily bred on the Wurttemberg dogs. Jung and Tell von Kriminalulize were both substancial dogs most noted for high withers, straight backs, and long back legs. Being such, Max awarded the title to Boxberg in the 20's to buck the trend of bigger dogs - Boxberg being only 23" at the withers. It wasn't the only time Max awarded the title to a dog in hopes of finding some compromise. eventually, even Max altered his standard to give some range for height, knowing that many of the "bigger" dogs had superior traits that he liked. So to state that the German shepherd has *always* been a smaller dog is factually wrong. I would much rather breed a German shepherd without the numerous health and temperament issues and not be to standard than to have a "standard" dog with health issues and nerve problems. And yes, the German shepherd was a family memeber/pet - a working family member/pet that earned his keep or was desposed of. Horand was a horrible working dog - Max saved him from the farm to have as his pet.

03-10-2010, 11:16 AM	#20 (permalink)
robinhuerta Knighted Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Illinois Posts: 2,917	...excuse the misspelled words in my last post.....typed too fast, and didn't have spell-check on!..... __________________ Huerta Hof German Shepherds www.teamhuertahof.com ....where breeding is still considered an art....

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