Question for breeders

PaulH · 09-01-2009, 11:21 PM

How important is it for you to do OFA prelims for a puppy you bought if it has not been done yet? You may plan on training/trialing the pup in the future. The pup may be 7 months old. Would you do prelims? Why or why not?
Thanks,
Paul

BlackGSD · 09-01-2009, 11:27 PM

So did the "breeder" buy the pup as a baby or at 7 months?

(Reason I asked for clarification is that a lot of breeders I know, wouldnt' have bought a 7 months old that hadn't been xrayed yet.)

Smithie86 · 09-01-2009, 11:28 PM

Yes, prelims on hips and elbows.

onyx'girl · 09-01-2009, 11:30 PM

Not a breeder but a puppy owner(6 mos). I had his prelims done a couple of weeks ago.
#1 For the breeder, benefits the program to know as soon as possible
#2 because I am doing SchH w/ the pup, I wanted to know so I didn't do any damage just in case there were questionable results. #3 if there was a problem, it is best to start w/ supplemental support asap.
It is important to have the vet doing the prelims know what they are doing, otherwise it will be a waste of time and $$.

selzer · 09-01-2009, 11:54 PM

I wait on my pups until they are two. I am not doing schutzhund but will get them started learning agility equipment etc.

I guess if I have a dog, I am going to work with it to learn its character anyway. Deciding whether the dog is breedworthy is a lot more about the journey and a lot less about the results. Genetic testing is a piece of the puzzle, but as I would not trust early results, I do not waste the money on them.

If the pup fails at two, well then I still have a pet that needs the same care and that I will still show in performance events. So I guess I am not putting as much emphasis in finding out early. At two, earlier if there are symptoms, I can find out about his and make adjustments as to what I intend to do performance wise with the dog.

onyx'girl · 09-02-2009, 12:13 AM

I did not get my pups done to see if he was breedworthy. It was for his protection, and if I wasn't doing SchH or any type of sport, I would still want to know early what his hips/elbows look like to be proactive. I had a scare w/ Onyx at 6 mos(misdiagnosed HD) so if I can see what may be early on, it is not a waste of money, IMO.

PaulH · 09-02-2009, 08:13 AM

A breeder I know had this pup from a young age. But instead of sending the x rays to OFA, her vet, who used to work for the OFA apparently said they were good at 7 months. At 2 yrs. the left hip was OFAed and was unilateral mild. Would you trust one local vet to read and pass judgement on either set of x rays?
Paul

**lhczth** · 09-02-2009, 08:54 AM

Hips can change between 7 months and 2 years. They can loosen and they can tighten (have seen both).

I do not send my prelims into OFA. I trust my vet.

**Chris Wild** · 09-02-2009, 09:22 AM

We always do prelims around 6-8 months.
From a breeding standpoint, we need to know how things are looking and that's important info to have before considering breeding the dam again. I don't want to breed a dog again without that info on her hip production, and don't want to necessarily wait 2-3 years between litters to allow her offspring to get their official OFAs either.
Since we do SchH with our dogs, it's also important to know that the joints are ok so that the dog will be physically capable of doing the work, and that doing the work won't harm the dog.
The earlier problems are identified, the more treatment and management options available.
If we kept back a pup to grow out for future SchH and breeding, I do like to have an idea earlier rather than later if the dog will be suitable for that. If not, the dog would be rehomed and that is easier done on a younger dog than an older one.

We don't send prelims to OFA. Between us and our vet we're quite capable of reading the x-rays ourselves for those purposes.

Yes, x-rays can change between prelims and adulthood. Though statistically it is more uncommon than common. Prelims will tell you if there are major problems though. If prelims look really, really good, chances of them failing at 2 are pretty slim. If they look really, really bad, chances of them improving and passing at 2 are pretty well nill. They might not provide much insight as to if the dog will go Fair or Mild at 2, but they will show if the joints hold promise or if there is a major issue that should be addressed sooner rather than later.

Doc · 09-02-2009, 09:35 AM

Like Chris, I prelim every pup I plan to keep in my breeding program. I do not send the prelim x-rays to OFA. With practice and experience, as a breeder you know what to look for on/in the x-rays.

09-01-2009, 11:21 PM	#1 (permalink)
PaulH Master Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 503	Question for breeders How important is it for you to do OFA prelims for a puppy you bought if it has not been done yet? You may plan on training/trialing the pup in the future. The pup may be 7 months old. Would you do prelims? Why or why not? Thanks, Paul

09-01-2009, 11:27 PM	#2 (permalink)
BlackGSD Crowned Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Eastern Washington Posts: 7,795	Re: Question for breeders So did the "breeder" buy the pup as a baby or at 7 months? (Reason I asked for clarification is that a lot of breeders I know, wouldnt' have bought a 7 months old that hadn't been xrayed yet.) __________________ Tracy Siren vom Banach { Sable female GSD 3-20-08} R.I.P. Wrangler male ACD/Aussie mix. 9-29-99 to8-29-11.

09-01-2009, 11:28 PM	#3 (permalink)
Smithie86 Crowned Member Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Nashville, TN and Budapest HU Posts: 3,807	Re: Question for breeders Yes, prelims on hips and elbows. __________________ Sue www.k9imports.com V KK1 Molinari Enzo SCH3,IPO3,VK3,FH(WUSVx3, FCIx4) HOT KK1 Frodo v Biezenhoeve SCH3,IPO3,HPO3 (WUSVx2, FCIx2)HOT KK1 Tarnoki-Felvigyazo Quamatz SCH3 (HOT), KK1 Griff v Tajgetosz SCH3(BHOT)

09-01-2009, 11:30 PM	#4 (permalink)
onyx'girl Crowned Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: SW, MI Posts: 17,605	Re: Question for breeders Not a breeder but a puppy owner(6 mos). I had his prelims done a couple of weeks ago. #1 For the breeder, benefits the program to know as soon as possible #2 because I am doing SchH w/ the pup, I wanted to know so I didn't do any damage just in case there were questionable results. #3 if there was a problem, it is best to start w/ supplemental support asap. It is important to have the vet doing the prelims know what they are doing, otherwise it will be a waste of time and $$. __________________ Jane~ Kept by Onyx, Kacie and Gideon v Wildhaus aka Karlo

09-01-2009, 11:54 PM	#5 (permalink)
selzer Crowned Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Denmark, Ohio Posts: 17,499	Re: Question for breeders I wait on my pups until they are two. I am not doing schutzhund but will get them started learning agility equipment etc. I guess if I have a dog, I am going to work with it to learn its character anyway. Deciding whether the dog is breedworthy is a lot more about the journey and a lot less about the results. Genetic testing is a piece of the puzzle, but as I would not trust early results, I do not waste the money on them. If the pup fails at two, well then I still have a pet that needs the same care and that I will still show in performance events. So I guess I am not putting as much emphasis in finding out early. At two, earlier if there are symptoms, I can find out about his and make adjustments as to what I intend to do performance wise with the dog. __________________ RIP Arwen, CD RN CGC RIP Whitney, RN CGC Jenna, RN CGC Babs, CD RA CGC Herding Instinct Certificate Heidi, RA CGC Tori, RN CGC SG3 Odessa, SchH1, Kkl1, AD Ninja, RN CGC Milla, RN CGC Joy, Star Puppy, RN CGC Dolly & Bear

09-02-2009, 12:13 AM	#6 (permalink)
onyx'girl Crowned Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: SW, MI Posts: 17,605	Re: Question for breeders I did not get my pups done to see if he was breedworthy. It was for his protection, and if I wasn't doing SchH or any type of sport, I would still want to know early what his hips/elbows look like to be proactive. I had a scare w/ Onyx at 6 mos(misdiagnosed HD) so if I can see what may be early on, it is not a waste of money, IMO. __________________ Jane~ Kept by Onyx, Kacie and Gideon v Wildhaus aka Karlo

09-02-2009, 08:13 AM	#7 (permalink)
PaulH Master Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 503	Re: Question for breeders A breeder I know had this pup from a young age. But instead of sending the x rays to OFA, her vet, who used to work for the OFA apparently said they were good at 7 months. At 2 yrs. the left hip was OFAed and was unilateral mild. Would you trust one local vet to read and pass judgement on either set of x rays? Paul

09-02-2009, 08:54 AM	#8 (permalink)
lhczth Administrator & LOTR Addict Join Date: Apr 2000 Location: Michigan, USA Posts: 11,695	Re: Question for breeders Hips can change between 7 months and 2 years. They can loosen and they can tighten (have seen both). I do not send my prelims into OFA. I trust my vet. __________________ Lisa Clark Zu Treuen Händen Working German Shepherd Dogs *South Michigan SchH and Police Club*

09-02-2009, 09:22 AM	#9 (permalink)
Chris Wild Administrator & Alpha Bitch of the Wild Bunch Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Michigan, USA Posts: 12,604	Re: Question for breeders We always do prelims around 6-8 months. From a breeding standpoint, we need to know how things are looking and that's important info to have before considering breeding the dam again. I don't want to breed a dog again without that info on her hip production, and don't want to necessarily wait 2-3 years between litters to allow her offspring to get their official OFAs either. Since we do SchH with our dogs, it's also important to know that the joints are ok so that the dog will be physically capable of doing the work, and that doing the work won't harm the dog. The earlier problems are identified, the more treatment and management options available. If we kept back a pup to grow out for future SchH and breeding, I do like to have an idea earlier rather than later if the dog will be suitable for that. If not, the dog would be rehomed and that is easier done on a younger dog than an older one. We don't send prelims to OFA. Between us and our vet we're quite capable of reading the x-rays ourselves for those purposes. Yes, x-rays can change between prelims and adulthood. Though statistically it is more uncommon than common. Prelims will tell you if there are major problems though. If prelims look really, really good, chances of them failing at 2 are pretty slim. If they look really, really bad, chances of them improving and passing at 2 are pretty well nill. They might not provide much insight as to if the dog will go Fair or Mild at 2, but they will show if the joints hold promise or if there is a major issue that should be addressed sooner rather than later. __________________ *Wildhaus Kennels* Kaiser ~ SchH3 CGC TDI (HOT) Raven ~ SchH3 AWD2 PD1 P1 PA T1 UCD URO2 CGC TT (B/HOT) Della ~ SchHA TR1 PD1 P1 PA T1 URO2 CGC TT (B/HOT) Wulf ~ SchH1 PD1 P1 T1 URO2 CGC TT (B/HOT) Heidi ~ BH CD UCD RN URO1 (B/HOT) Jazz ~ Superpup In Training

09-02-2009, 09:35 AM	#10 (permalink)
Doc Elite Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 1,605	Re: Question for breeders Like Chris, I prelim every pup I plan to keep in my breeding program. I do not send the prelim x-rays to OFA. With practice and experience, as a breeder you know what to look for on/in the x-rays.

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