Have a situation, what would you do?

[selzer]

The fellow that bought my only male out of my last litter, bought a female out of working lines the same age from someone else. He has brought the two up together and "they are like twins." He doesn't want to separate them.

He loves the dog, says he is lovable, obedient, beautiful, but he is on dyalisis now and needs to move from his home.

I offered to take the dog back, but he says he can't give them away. He has too much money tied up in them. He has over 800 dollars in shots in the two of them (plus the purchase prices which he did not mention).

He would like for me to help him sell them.

I am not in a position to pay for the dog back. I could find room for him here, but taking both of them would be really hard.

About two months after he took the dog six months ago, I was there and both dogs seemed to have good temperaments. But they were four month old puppies. Considering his medical condition, the pups may not be well socialized at this point.

Would you try to sell a couple of pups for someone without having them and seeing them?

I knew of a couple of people looking for older dogs, so I told him I would check a few people out and get back to him next week. I checked my e-mail, one wants a male age 2-4, the other doesn't care what sex, but ages 2-4.

I think that before I contact people, I need a drop dead price from this guy, and he needs to realize that he is not going to get out of his dogs what he put into them.

What would you do and what would you offer?

[JakodaCD OA]

tho not a breeder, but if I,

1. Did this guy have a contract giving you first rights of refusal? If so, I'd say, refer to your contract, the dog comes back to me.

2. I think the guy should be more interested in finding the dogs a good home vs the money he has in them. Maybe mention this?

3. I would never try to sell or place a dog(s) without thoroughly evaluating them first. It may come back to bite you, no pun intended.

I would first evaluate the dogs and go from there.

[Chris Wild]

Well, first off, what does your contract say? Does it have First Right of Refusal? Right of Reversion in the event he can no longer take care of the dog? If you have a signed contract stipulating those things it gets a lot easier.

I agree, first step is you need a drop dead price for them. And you need to evaluate the dogs. I would never sell a dog I didn't know. Post it on my website for someone else, making it clear they are the seller and to contact them and I'm just doing a favor, sure. But I'd never take the position of being the official seller on a dog I didn't know.

Honestly though, I'm be pretty POed at someone who can no longer take care of his animals and is asking for help placing them, yet at the same time is still concerned with the almighty dollar. I mean $800 in *shots*? Huh? Shots for what? Almost sounds like he's using his medical condition to elicit pity and take advantage of that situation so he can make a buck off the dogs. I may be wrong on that. Hope I am. But the whole "oh, I've got X dollars tied up in them so I need to sell them, I can't just give them away" mindset sure doesn't sound like someone for whom the welfare of the pups is a high priority.

[emjworks05]

I would absolutely want him to give a price for the dogs, but your right he cant expect to get all that he put into them. I can only speak for myself when I say that I would be more concerned about the pups getting a good home then trying to get money out of them. Maybe see if you could spend some time with the pups to evaluate where you think they stand temp, personality and socialization wise. Then when you help him re home them (if that's what you plan to do) you can tell the people interested honesty if you think their home would be a good match for the dogs.

ETA: I was typing at the same time as Diane and Chris.

[Jax08]

I'm stumped at the $800 for shots. I spend $100-150 a year in shots, check up per dog. this pup isn't even a year old yet if I read that correctly.

[Catu]

I bought a car, it costed me XXX. Since the last year I paid hundreds of dollars in the mechanic, I fixed the brackes, changed tires and multiple others minor things. Oh, and I have not even calculated how much I've paid on gas since I got this car!

So, under that logic, if I sell my car, people should pay me a lot more than what I've paid for it when I bought it, but no less than USD $3000 more than XXX... but the sad truth is that the day I want to sell it, my car will cost a lot less than what I paid. And no mention my Laptop! the devaluation is even worst!!!

Tell your friend that he have to decide if he wants to gets his money back or if he wants to find a good home for them. I doubt he will get both things at the same time. Two older pups of a large breed... It is hard for the average family to take that commitment, but I bet there are dozens of puppy mills thrilling for them if he wants his money back.

[selzer]

No, my contract does not state any Right of Reversion, or First Right of Refusal. It says I will take the dog back, and discusses under what conditions I will refund money or offer a replacement.

I also thought $800 for two dogs was an awful lot for shots for two dogs.

This guy lives about two hours away from me. I can make the trip, but I cannot just go to evaluate them.

I am wondering if I can offer to take the puppies and manage them until I can find a buyer for them. That way I can get my own impression of their current temperament, etc, so I can determine the best home for them.

I had no idea how old this guy was, until the visit at four months old when he told me. But I cannot really ask someone's age or descriminate for age or medical condition. Had I known he was getting another pup at the same time, I would have reconsidered, but at that point it was a done deal.

I am going to call him next week, and try to come up with a plan for his puppies. At one point he said his house was paid for and he could stay there indefinitely, so no hurry. But he also said he needed to move out into a high rise because of the dyalisis, and has had a lot of medical problems this year. A woman left the original message for me, so he has someone else involved in this.

The guy is 80. I do not think he is trying to cheat me or use pity to get me to do something extra for him. I do think that he doesn't realize that he will probably not get what he put into the dogs.

Thanks for the responses.

[3K9Mom]

Where is the other breeder? Has she been contacted about this situation?

[selzer]

I didn't ask him.

When I was there last, I looked at her pedigree. I cannot remember who the breeder's name was, but my friend who went with me may. I think maybe she knew of her. I am going to call her.

[Chris Wild]

Water over the bridge now I guess, but a few things I think you should really consider moving forward.

Originally Posted By: selzerNo, my contract does not state any Right of Reversion, or First Right of Refusal. It says I will take the dog back, and discusses under what conditions I will refund money or offer a replacement.

Add those to your contract. They can come in very handy in situations just like this one and make it MUCH easier to step in and safeguard the dogs' welfare.

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I also thought $800 for two dogs was an awful lot for shots for two dogs.

There's just no possible way. He either is very mistaken on what he paid, or is exaggerating to prove his case of how he just has to get money for them.

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This guy lives about two hours away from me. I can make the trip, but I cannot just go to evaluate them.

Why can't you "just go to evaluate them"?

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I am wondering if I can offer to take the puppies and manage them until I can find a buyer for them. That way I can get my own impression of their current temperament, etc, so I can determine the best home for them.

I think this is the ideal outcome. Doesn't sound like this guy is going to put a whole lot of effort into finding a good home. He's in a hurry, and wants $$... those pups are going to the first person to show up with a checkbook.

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But I cannot really ask someone's age or descriminate for age or medical condition.

Why not??? Placing puppies in homes is not an "EOE" situation. You have the right to ask whatever questions you want and decide whether or not to sell based on those answers. If someone doesn't like it, oh well. There are plenty of other breeders who don't care and will sell them a pup. I personally see nothing wrong with refusing a sale if it turns out the chances are slim to none that the owner is going to be able to care for the dog long term, or even live to see their dog hit middle age.

I'm not saying that older people don't deserve to have wonderful companions. But plans need to be in place, upfront, agreed on by everyone (preferably in writing) for what will happen to the dog when the time comes they cannot care for it. It does no one, least of all the dog, any good to ignore the reality of the situation.

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Had I known he was getting another pup at the same time, I would have reconsidered, but at that point it was a done deal.

Another good question to add to the list of things to discuss in a pre-purchase interview with perspective customers.