So who's dog is it? Question for breeders..

[Brandon Coker]

So this guy I work with is a GSD lover and 3 of his own.

Make a long story short he tells me that most pups you buy from breeders you can't breed in the future. Unless you pay an extra $500+ the dog is owned by you and the breeder and you are not allowed to breed it.

I have no plans to breed my GSD (the one I don't have yet) but is this true?

Thanks

[AbbyK9]

As far as I know, that's pretty common.

For example, Wildhaus Kennels (Chris & Tim are on this board) offer their pups with AKC Limited (non-breeding) registrations but you can have it changed to Full Registration once the dog is at least 2 years old and has been found suitable for breeding, meaning, health clearances and titles. You can see that on their website at http://wildhauskennels.com/purchaseinfo.htm

I think the idea behind this is to keep people from buying dogs from quality lines and then producing puppies without first ensuring that the dog is actually worthy to be bred.

[ellen366]

i think that it also speaks to the breeder's ethics...their desire to prevent inappropriate breeding by their dogs' progeny; so many dogs in our society end up being euthanized; i think it's great that more and more breeders are doing this; so many people buy a pb, registered dog with the idea of breeding him/her and making a fast buck; this does nothing to improve the breed and only adds to the ever growing number of dogs in need of rescue; i applaud breeders who care enough about the dogs and the breed to do this

[SunCzarina]

Sounds about right, although I wouldn't quote your friend on the dollar amount or that the pup goes from being YOUR dog to being CO-OWNED. That part is up to the breeder. It's worth discussing with your potential breeder.

Personally I feel that any breeder who gives an unlimited registration on an 8 week old pup, probably doesn't have the best interest of the breed in their heart. i.e. they're in it for the money.

[Cassidy's Mom]

There is no set dollar amount to be able to breed a dog. Maybe that's what his breeder does. Many puppies are sold on a spay/neuter contract, and the ones that aren't are often sold with limited registration, which means that if you do breed your dog you can't register the litter and any puppies produced won't have "papers". That will usually eliminate any financial incentive to breed since without papers you can't prove that the puppies are purebred. Some breeders will lift the limited registration if your dog is deemed worthy of breeding, which can mean that they've earned the titles to demonstrate proper working temperament and drives, and that their health and structure warrant it.

The only way that you and your breeder both own a dog is with a co-own agreement, which still should be about the breeding potential of the particular dog, not about how much more money you're willing to pay. When the time comes, talk to the breeder you've selected, and read the contract. I have no plans to breed, so limited registration is fine with me. I have no problem signing a contract with a spay/neuter agreement.

[Brandon Coker]

Ok..well I understand why they do it now.

It's good for the breed....I get that. I just had never heard of that so I wanted to ask you guys. Good to know.

After reading the articles on Chris's site I wouldn't want to breed a GSD unless it had those qualities anyway.

[Chris Wild]

In most cases, these things are done to protect the dogs, and any future puppies, from indiscriminate breeding. Limited Registration is one way to do it, often with contractual stipulations for lifting the limitation and upgrading to Full registration once certain criteria are met. As Historian mentioned, we do this as do many other breeders. Unfortunately while it helps, it's not foolproof one since other registries such as UKC and CKC could still be used for registering pups even if one or both parents has Limited AKC papers (or in some cases, no AKC papers but looks purebred).

Other breeders will sell pups with Full Registration for additional cost. May be more or less than the $500 your friend quoted, but it's not uncommon. Personally, I don't agree with it. It doesn't safeguard the dog or future litters at all, just puts more money in the breeder's pocket.

Co-ownership is yet another way to do it. This is the ONLY way the dog would still be partially owned by the breeder as your friend mentioned. In this case, both parties are listed on the AKC registration, and both parties have to sign off on paperwork if the dog is bred. This is perhaps the surest way, even moreso than Limited Registration, to safeguard future breeding of the dog. But it can be very restrictive and all sorts of things can go wrong and if the buyer and breeder have a falling out, the buyer can jump through all sorts of hoops at the breeder's request and the breeder can still screw the buyer over. So IMO this isn't something that should be considered unless buyer and breeder know and trust each other well and both want to do it.

[BlackGSD]

Originally Posted By: Brandon C
Unless you pay an extra $500+ the dog is owned by you and the breeder and you are not allowed to breed it.

As this is worded, NO it is NOT true. Some breeders sell puppies on a "co-own" (for a cheaper price) where the breeder AND new owner are both listed as the owners of the pup. Some not "most" breeders. MOST breeders do NOT do it this way. And those that do, it is not for pups intended to be pets, but for show dogs and/or pups that will hopefully turn out to be worthy of breeding in the future.

[Liesje]

Originally Posted By: Brandon CSo this guy I work with is a GSD lover and 3 of his own.

Make a long story short he tells me that most pups you buy from breeders you can't breed in the future. Unless you pay an extra $500+ the dog is owned by you and the breeder and you are not allowed to breed it.

I have no plans to breed my GSD (the one I don't have yet) but is this true?

Thanks

Well, technically a dog is property and you can do whatever you want (I'm NOT condoning breeding, just saying...). Usually breeders sell dogs on limited registration and agree to upgrade to full registration when the new owner has met certain criteria (the dog is a certain age, hips and elbows pass, certain titles are attained, etc). A dog bred on limited or no registration cannot have their litters registered with the AKC. So yes you could still breed the dog but you could not register any of the puppies.

Other breeders do co-ownerships where both people own the dog and have the registration setup so that in order to register puppies BOTH signatures are required on the paper.

Good breeders are very particular about their registrations and breeding arrangements. They spend a lot of time and money breeding and titling quality dogs, they don't want some nobody looking to make a buck buying their dog and breeding it. They can't really force anyone NOT to breed their dog, even with the agreements and limitations in place, so that is why a good breeder is extremely selective of who gets their puppies in the first place.

[Brandon Coker]

So I’m just curious about something.

Say I went to someone like Chris for example and bought a dog from him but asked him to select a companion dog out of his litter and not so much a working dog.

Now lets say this dog is a really great dog even if it’s not a working dog. And lets say I even went and got the dog checked for hip problems and what not and it came out good.

Now would it be looked down on to breed this dog if you never advertised it as a “working line” dog? I mean there is a difference in a working line and say a companion dog right? So if you were wanting to breed your dog and like I said hips had been checked why wouldn’t a breeder give you registration in that case?

Like I said I have no plans on breeding but I know there are good breeders out there that don’t breed working line dogs. So if the dog was healthy and you were doing to match it up with another healthy dog after doing the research why wouldn’t they let you.

I’m honestly not trying to argue here I’m just trying to see how all this works is all. Again I have no plans but say one day I decided that I did want to breed my dog….never know what the future holds ya know?