undercoat question

[jocoyn]

I was refreshing myself with the standard and saw something that made me go ........?

It says only blacks have a black undercoat and the rest ALWAYS have grey. I have seen this to be true in other GSDs I have owned (actually a light grey or tannish grey at that)

Cyra is a blanket black and tan. Perhaps she carries a black gene but I don't know. She does have "almost" tarheels and "almost penciling" but she has slowly outgrown that at lightened over time. She most decidedly has a black undercoat,though.

Anyone seen that happen? There is no doubt in my mind that it is black.

[Brightelf]

I must agree with you. My last dog has a black undercoat where his saddle was (honestly!). The rest was a soft gray color.

But.. my new dog, a dark sable, has a warm rich, glowing light golden caramel-colored undercoat. My black-and red dog's undercoat was gray where he saddle was not... this dogs undercoat is the rich soft caramel color.

[Vinnie]

Looking at the FCI standard the only thing I see them saying about the color of the undercoat is;

Quote: The undercoat shows a light greyish tone.

Here's the link I'm using for the standard ---->
FCI-Standard N° 166 / 07. 08. 1996 / GB

It doesn’t say anything about different colors but I can tell you that my Black & Tan AmBred’s undercoat is a cream color where he has an undercoat. My Bi-color’s undercoat is more of a dark gray (I wouldn't call it black or light gray).

[jocoyn]

Interesting I got this here:

http://www.workingdogs.com/standard_fci.htm

What you linked to looks more "official" - even so light greyish tone does not come close

[Vinnie]

I think the one you're looking at might be an older version????

Quote: From SCHUTZHUND USA March/April 1989 "The German Shepherd Standard" by Morton Goldfarb, USA/SV/AKC Judge

I could be wrong but under the faults there is nothing about the undercoat color so I don't think that's a big issue. I think the major thing is that there is an undercoat, the fault seems to be when there is no undercoat.

[jocoyn]

I was not concerned about the fault thing it just seemed to indicate that only a black dog could genetically have a black undercoat...........i probably should have put it in the genetic issues forum.

[Vinnie]

Oh, no I think it is a "Breed Standard" issue. I think the problem is just that the standard has changed a bit over time - maybe they found the way it was worded earlier was wrong or misleading. (Who knows?) Some standards don't say anything about the color of the undercoat but I just figured you were looking at the FCI standard.

[Chris Wild]

Every black dog we've owned has had a black undercoat. We had a bi-color who also had a black undercoat. And have had dark black & tans (blanket pattern) with black undercoats under their black markings and others with dark gray undercoats. Our sables have all had light gray, beige or carmel colored undercoats.

So no, I don't think black undercoats are restricted to only black dogs. Black dogs will always have black undercoats, but other dark dogs like Bis and melanistic black & tans can have them too.