Do B&T dogs have tarheels?

[DianaM]

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/...ee/442070.html

The dog has the tarheels of a bicolor, but no toe penciling and a whole lot of tan. I'm inclined to say he is a black and tan but I've read that tar heels are a good indicator of a bicolor. Thoughts?

[Chris Wild]

I suppose it's possible for there to be a B&T dog with tarheels, but I've never encountered one. Even on really, really dark B&Ts that have extensive enough black to be mistaken for Bi-color.

I've never seen a Bi-color without tarheels, though I've seen a couple without toe penciling, that's pretty rare.

The dog pictured has such odd markings it's hard to say what he is genetically. I suppose he could be a Bi-color, but he does have too much tan to generally fit that mold. But it's obvious he has some pretty significant extension genes causing lack of black in the mask, so possibly elsewhere too...

Actually looks to me like he could be sable. Especially with the shawl on his shoulders. Though probably not since neither of parents look like saddle patterned sables.. though the could be. Old b&w photos can make it hard to tell.

[DianaM]

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/...ee/528310.html
Another with the tarheel.

It is a little boggling, Chris. Rocky might indeed be a sable as his mom looks like a possible sable, but either way those are some odd markings. I looked at the siblings, and a full sibling from a different litter ended up a bicolor: http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/...ee/444029.html

Same litter: http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/...ee/403136.html Looks like a tarheel on the foreground hock.

It sure doesn't help that they are black and white, but these are still confusing! In any case, it helps to know that tarheeling is a bicolor trait along with toe penciling.

[Powell]

I was going to say....only in a North Carolina dog...


Powell (ducking)

[Sue F]

I was waiting for it Powell, I knew it would come up eventually..LOL

[lhczth]

Quote:http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/...ee/528310.html
Another with the tarheel.

I think it is just the photo that is making this dog appear to have tar heals. He is a blanket b/t.

The sire, Ch. Nordraak of Matterhorn, of the first dog you posted seems to have produced a few of these dogs that sort of look bi-colored.
1/2 sister: http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/...ee/403819.html
His Sire also appears to be a BI that doesn't have as much black. http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/...ee/402146.html
Noordraak himself had terrible color and one would never know that he could produce these more melanistic dogs. He also produced several with terrible color. The original dog may very well be a BI with some sort of color fading gene affecting how much black/tan he shows.

[JKlatsky]

I don't know much about coloring in dogs, but when I saw the picture it reminded me very much of what they called a faded Bi-color on this site...

http://www.shawlein.com/The_Standard...&_Pigment.html

[Achielles UD]

Wow. The first dog in question really looks like the faded bi-color on the color page JKlatsky posted.
Thanks for that color page! Very interesting and informative!

[lhczth]

Thank you for that link. I had forgotten about that page. Yes, he does look like a faded BI.

[DianaM]

Very interesting. I didn't know bicolor could be faded so much (I've seen Shawlein's example before, but never a real life example).