German Shepherd vs White German Shepherd vs White Swiss Shepherd

[Shaolin]

Originally Posted by Mrs.K

My post was an answer to this question:



Since I am German, the SV matters to me more than the AKC ever will and according to SV and FCI rules there is no such thing as the white German Shepherd. Only the Swiss Shepherd and like I said before, the SV does not recognize a white German Shepherd, they do not register the white German Shepherd. A white German Shepherd does not exist. That is their position.
The FCI accepted the Berger Blanc Suisse, so the white Shepherd in fact is the Berger Blanc Suisse and not a white German Shepherd.

The white Shepherd, for the longest time was called American/Canadian Shepherd because there is no white German Shepherd (even though we all know it is a GSD there is NO SUCH THING as a white German Shepherd).

For the breed, the best thing that could have happened is to get acknowledged and recognized as it's own breed because the SV/VDH/FCI will NEVER, NEVER, NEVER, EVER accept a white German Shepherd. Not now, not ever!

The SV has the same stance as the AKC; White is a fault. That's it. You make it sound as if they refuse to believe that they even exist on this planet or even have the same genetics as a GSD. Genetically, they are the same. They just have the same color. There are Sch clubs that allow WGSDs to participate in club activities, but cannot participate in breeding. Nothing wrong with that.

The only reason the White coat was banned was because the Nazi's believed that the white coat ment diluted genes and that they had more health problems than the 'standard' GS. Now that it has been proven that, the color of the dog has nothing to do with intelligence, stamina, health, working ability, ect, why can't they be included as a coloring of the dog, the same way the B&T, Sable, and Black have been? If not, why can't they just be accepted as a GSD that has a fault and will only breed amongst themselves and progressive 'standard' owners that are looking to progress the breed as a whole, versus all this in-fighting about who's color is "right"?

My two favorite Captain Max Von Stephanitz quotes that talk about his desire for the breed mention nothing about color of the dog. Why can't we just go with that and love the breed for what it is, not the color of the dog?

[Mrs.K]

Originally Posted by Shaolin

The SV has the same stance as the AKC; White is a fault. That's it. You make it sound as if they refuse to believe that they even exist on this planet or even have the same genetics as a GSD. Genetically, they are the same. They just have the same color. There are Sch clubs that allow WGSDs to participate in club activities, but cannot participate in breeding. Nothing wrong with that.

The only reason the White coat was banned was because the Nazi's believed that the white coat ment diluted genes and that they had more health problems than the 'standard' GS. Now that it has been proven that, the color of the dog has nothing to do with intelligence, stamina, health, working ability, ect, why can't they be included as a coloring of the dog, the same way the B&T, Sable, and Black have been? If not, why can't they just be accepted as a GSD that has a fault and will only breed amongst themselves and progressive 'standard' owners that are looking to progress the breed as a whole, versus all this in-fighting about who's color is "right"?

My two favorite Captain Max Von Stephanitz quotes that talk about his desire for the breed mention nothing about color of the dog. Why can't we just go with that and love the breed for what it is, not the color of the dog?

Because there is no such thing as the white German Shepherd. It is banned from the registration completely. We all know they are technically GSD's but they are not accepted therefor they will never be German Shepherds, they will never be registered as German Shepherd Dogs.

They are Berger Blanc Suisse and it doesn't matter if they once were one and the same breed, if they have the same genes or not. They are NOT German Shepherds but the Berger Blanc Suisse, period!
You cannot ignore the fact that the Berger Blanc Suisse is an officially accepted breed by the FCI!

[jessac]

I don't see this argument getting anywhere...me and my non-existent dog are gonna go relax with a game of fetch.

[Scarlettsmom]

Originally Posted by Whiteshepherds

White German Shepherd Dog - The color white is caused by a recessive masking gene introduced into the breed from the very beginning. White coated German Shepherds can be registered with the AKC as German Shepherd Dogs. The disqualifying fault for the color white means the dogs can't be shown in the conformation ring but they are allowed to take part in all other AKC events. (obedience, agility etc.)

White Swiss Shepherd also known as the White Shepherd and Berger Blanc Suisse. Not recognized by the AKC but recognized by the UKC and the FCI. Shares a common ancestry with the white coated GSD but is bred to a different standard.

Breeders who support recognition for the White Shepherd in the AKC (and CKC) typically refer to their dogs as White Shepherds or White Swiss Shepherds even if they're still being registered as GSD's. Breeders who produce white coated German Shepherd Dogs call them GSD's or White German Shepherds.

Thank you for such a great definition. I should print it out and carry it with me whenever I am walking Scarlett. I always seem to get this question and never have the succinct answer.

[Mrs.K]

Originally Posted by jessac

I don't see this argument getting anywhere...me and my non-existent dog are gonna go relax with a game of fetch.

It is what it is. In Germany the WGSD is banned for over 60 years. I grew up with them being the Canadian Shepherd and now they are Berger Blanc Suisse.

Simple as that... just because the AKC had to make it's own rules, doesn't make it right.

[Shaolin]

Yeah...I'm just gonna go out and get my not-real dog some bully sticks and then take him to CGC class. No reason to raise my BP over this. I believe what I believe, you believe what you are going to believe. Nothing either one of us can/will say can change that.

[Mrs.K]

I have no issue with your believes. Just stating some facts. Again, these are the rules in Germany/Europe. A white Shepherd, is the Berger Blanc Suisse. We do not have white German Shepherds.

So your dog, to me, is a Berger Blanc Suisse or a white Shepherd but not a white German Shepherd.

[Chicagocanine]

Personally I don't think further narrowing of an already small gene pool by making the white GSD a separate breed is going to do anything good for these dogs in the future.

[Whiteshepherds]

Originally Posted by Chicagocanine

Personally I don't think further narrowing of an already small gene pool by making the white GSD a separate breed is going to do anything good for these dogs in the future.

This is a myth. Fred Lanting wrote a good article about the gene pool for the whites and stated that it was more than sufficient to support the breed. I doubt he was guessing or making it up.

Originally Posted by shepherdmom

Well their loss. I and hopefully many others will NEVER NEVER NEVER EVER buy a SV/VDH/FCI dog because that is just ridiculous. Hopefully the AKC/UKC will not go that stupid!

The UKC recognizes the White Shepherd as a distinct breed separate and apart from the white coated German Shepherd Dog.

Simple as that... just because the AKC had to make it's own rules,

Mrs K just to clarify. The SV is a registry and a parent club. In the US the GSDCA is the parent club for the GSD, the AKC only registers them. The AKC is told what can and can't be done with a breed by the parent clubs. It wasn't the AKC that made the rules, it was the GSDCA.


I also wanted to add that the Berger Blanc Suisse are not the same as an SV GSD regardless of their ancestry and they are not the same as the American or Canadian white GSD's. They're the result of selective breeding for a structure and temperament that suited the purposes of the people who bred them. These are amazing dogs with some of the best attributes the GSD breed had to offer but they have their differences. The road they traveled to gain breed recognition wasn't easy or short, but it paid off.


The American White Shepherd Association is the parent club for the White Shepherd and the BBS (same dogs, name changes depending what country you live in) in the US and continues to work with the AKC in an effort to gain FSS status. At this point in time we (AWSA) are very pleased with our progress. Again, this isn't an easy or short road but we believe these dogs deserve to have full breed recognition out from under the stigma they've carried for so long and away from the GSDCA.


I wonder why the GSDCA holds on so tightly to dogs that carry one of the 5 disqualifying faults in the breed. (or maybe it's 6) If the job of a parent club is to protect the integrity of a breed one would think their first order of business would be to eliminate dogs that were intentionally bred with faults. If they don't believe the dogs are faulty why haven't they lifted the dq?? Food for thought.

[Mrs.K]

I also wanted to add that the Berger Blanc Suisse are not the same as an SV GSD regardless of their ancestry and they are not the same as the American or Canadian white GSD's. They're the result of selective breeding for a structure and temperament that suited the purposes of the people who bred them. These are amazing dogs with some of the best attributes the GSD breed had to offer but they have their differences. The road they traveled to gain breed recognition wasn't easy or short, but it paid off.

It all goes back to the Canadian White Shepherd and White German Shepherd Dog. They imported dogs from Denmark, Canada, America left and right to create the breed. It is the White German Shepherd Dog but to get recognized by the FCI they had to start to breed selectively. Otherwise they would have never been accepted as a breed. Also, a lot of White Shepht therd breeders in Germany started to join the BBI once they had the chance to do so.
They have only been accepted since 2011.
From what I know was Switzerland the first country with 8 independent Bloodlines which is why the Société Cynologique Suisse, put in the application with the FCI to get the Berger Blanc Suisse.