Defensive drive and threshold..

Safzola · 02-07-2013, 04:52 AM

Our 10 mth old Zolas defensive drive is really high,but her threshold is low;well in some situations that is for example when out walking , some days she would bark at almost everyone she sees and yet on other days she just doesn`t seem bothered to.However , the other day while standing outside a super market she barked loudly at everyone that came within ten foot of me , not one of these people showed any threat.Off lead she is great with other dogs but will bark on lead.At home she barks at anyone that passes the window and the sound of the door bell.

We have two little boys aged 2.5 and 1.5 ,the pair of them can go and sit ON Zola while she is sleeping and all she does is slowly look up at them then go back to sleep BUT if either myself or my wife goes and sits next to her and strokes,she gives a quiet growl and shows us her teeth before getting up and moving. Whats going on here ??

I`ve read that threshold will not changed , is this true ? Can training more improve it ? Thanks in advance for any replies.......Oh just for the record her prey drive is very high...........

cliffson1 · 02-07-2013, 08:03 AM

How did you come to the conclusion that the defense drive is high?

carmspack · 02-07-2013, 08:31 AM

high defence and low threshold are sort of hand in glove -- sounds like the dog is reactive ---
So you stand in front of a supermarket and the dog sounds off at all "neutral" people coming and going -- how did you correct her ? I hope you weren't inadvertantly giving her the , "good" , rewarding signal . When you said she shows teeth if you or your wife - that is the day the bomb dropped and life is going to change -- . Immediately. One day one of the kids is going to get a reflexive bite . The dog is learning your limitations and is pushing you around .
This will bleed over into day to day dealings with the dog . Get to a good trainer ....

carmspack · 02-07-2013, 08:33 AM

just noticed -- especially in the United Kingdom , Britain with its very restrictive anti-breed legislation . All caught of CCTV no doubt .

**lhczth** · 02-07-2013, 10:13 AM

Yes, good training will help you with your dog so you do not inadvertently make this worse. Thresholds do tend to go up as dogs mature and experience more of life, but, again, good training is a must.

Safzola · 02-07-2013, 10:50 AM

thank you lisa for your reply its good to no that not everyone can be so judgmental, zola has a few issues but you could not get a better dog than wich way she is with our boys, some people have miss understood this thread...... i have just been reading up on a few things and found out that zola is at a testing age and that you should not react to her just divert her to something else.

cliffson1 · 02-07-2013, 03:02 PM

I asked a simple question about the source of the conclusion of the defense drive...to give a more informed opinion. I have found that it is often difficult to assess defense drive at 10 months because in most pups the drive isn't close to being developed yet. So if you are a very skilled trainer or a very skilled trainer assessed this....okay, then the advice goes one way. But if the dog is maybe reactive more so than truly defensive, then other things may be offered. Simple question for clarification to try to help with advice. No hidden agendas, just clarity needed.....take care!

RubyTuesday · 02-07-2013, 05:52 PM

Safzola, I don't think anyone is being 'judgmental'. This is potentiallly a serious situation & must recognized as such. Rarely do these situations 'self correct'.

Regardless of the reason NO dog s/b growling at its owners. Nor should it be reacting to neutral strangers. For Zola's sake have her assessed & then commence rigorously training/correcting based on a solid, professional assessment. Honestly, it could someday be a matter of life & death for your beloved Zola.

Catu · 02-07-2013, 07:10 PM

Sounds more like a reactive teenager than defense drive. In my experience working with pet dogs, 30% is the dog being reactive and 70% is how the owner reacts to the dog reaction, if you'll forgive the repetition. So most of time it is something you both, as a team, need to work on.

robk · 02-07-2013, 10:14 PM

Many dogs are more reactive on leash because they feel some insecurity since they cannot leave (fight or flight reaction). Many of these same dogs will be very friendly and out going when the leash is removed. Others will move to a farther location from the source of threat then resume barking. Most dogs will bark from the safety of their own homes at people or animals that pass by. The further a dog gets from its home base of comfort and security the more timid they become. To me a sign of good nerves is a dog that you can take anywhere (on leash) and they are very outgoing and friendly even in strange environments.

02-07-2013, 04:52 AM	#1 (permalink)
Safzola Member Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: UK Posts: 150	Defensive drive and threshold.. Our 10 mth old Zolas defensive drive is really high,but her threshold is low;well in some situations that is for example when out walking , some days she would bark at almost everyone she sees and yet on other days she just doesn`t seem bothered to.However , the other day while standing outside a super market she barked loudly at everyone that came within ten foot of me , not one of these people showed any threat.Off lead she is great with other dogs but will bark on lead.At home she barks at anyone that passes the window and the sound of the door bell. We have two little boys aged 2.5 and 1.5 ,the pair of them can go and sit ON Zola while she is sleeping and all she does is slowly look up at them then go back to sleep BUT if either myself or my wife goes and sits next to her and strokes,she gives a quiet growl and shows us her teeth before getting up and moving. Whats going on here ?? I`ve read that threshold will not changed , is this true ? Can training more improve it ? Thanks in advance for any replies.......Oh just for the record her prey drive is very high........... __________________ Sapphire 2000-2011 Zola 2012-

02-07-2013, 08:31 AM	#3 (permalink)
carmspack Crowned Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: ontario - Posts: 5,569	high defence and low threshold are sort of hand in glove -- sounds like the dog is reactive --- So you stand in front of a supermarket and the dog sounds off at all "neutral" people coming and going -- how did you correct her ? I hope you weren't inadvertantly giving her the , "good" , rewarding signal . When you said she shows teeth if you or your wife - that is the day the bomb dropped and life is going to change -- . Immediately. One day one of the kids is going to get a reflexive bite . The dog is learning your limitations and is pushing you around . This will bleed over into day to day dealings with the dog . Get to a good trainer .... __________________ Carmen ******** Carmspack**

02-07-2013, 08:33 AM	#4 (permalink)
carmspack Crowned Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: ontario - Posts: 5,569	just noticed -- especially in the United Kingdom , Britain with its very restrictive anti-breed legislation . All caught of CCTV no doubt . __________________ Carmen ******** Carmspack**

02-07-2013, 10:13 AM	#5 (permalink)
lhczth Administrator & LOTR Addict Join Date: Apr 2000 Location: Michigan, USA Posts: 13,740	Yes, good training will help you with your dog so you do not inadvertently make this worse. Thresholds do tend to go up as dogs mature and experience more of life, but, again, good training is a must. __________________ Lisa Clark Zu Treuen Händen Working German Shepherd Dogs *South Michigan SchH and Police Club*

02-07-2013, 10:50 AM	#6 (permalink)
Safzola Member Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: UK Posts: 150	thank you lisa for your reply its good to no that not everyone can be so judgmental, zola has a few issues but you could not get a better dog than wich way she is with our boys, some people have miss understood this thread...... i have just been reading up on a few things and found out that zola is at a testing age and that you should not react to her just divert her to something else. __________________ Sapphire 2000-2011 Zola 2012-

02-07-2013, 08:03 AM	#2 (permalink)
cliffson1 Crowned Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 3,879	How did you come to the conclusion that the defense drive is high?

02-07-2013, 03:02 PM	#7 (permalink)
cliffson1 Crowned Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 3,879	I asked a simple question about the source of the conclusion of the defense drive...to give a more informed opinion. I have found that it is often difficult to assess defense drive at 10 months because in most pups the drive isn't close to being developed yet. So if you are a very skilled trainer or a very skilled trainer assessed this....okay, then the advice goes one way. But if the dog is maybe reactive more so than truly defensive, then other things may be offered. Simple question for clarification to try to help with advice. No hidden agendas, just clarity needed.....take care!

02-07-2013, 05:52 PM	#8 (permalink)
RubyTuesday Elite Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 1,438	Safzola, I don't think anyone is being 'judgmental'. This is potentiallly a serious situation & must recognized as such. Rarely do these situations 'self correct'. Regardless of the reason NO dog s/b growling at its owners. Nor should it be reacting to neutral strangers. For Zola's sake have her assessed & then commence rigorously training/correcting based on a solid, professional assessment. Honestly, it could someday be a matter of life & death for your beloved Zola.

02-07-2013, 07:10 PM	#9 (permalink)
Catu Crowned Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Valdivia, Chile Posts: 4,542	Sounds more like a reactive teenager than defense drive. In my experience working with pet dogs, 30% is the dog being reactive and 70% is how the owner reacts to the dog reaction, if you'll forgive the repetition. So most of time it is something you both, as a team, need to work on. __________________ Diabla, my Daemon; SchH A, RH-T A Akela, my Direwolf; IPO-A1

02-07-2013, 10:14 PM	#10 (permalink)
robk Elite Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Fayetteville, NC Posts: 1,541	Many dogs are more reactive on leash because they feel some insecurity since they cannot leave (fight or flight reaction). Many of these same dogs will be very friendly and out going when the leash is removed. Others will move to a farther location from the source of threat then resume barking. Most dogs will bark from the safety of their own homes at people or animals that pass by. The further a dog gets from its home base of comfort and security the more timid they become. To me a sign of good nerves is a dog that you can take anywhere (on leash) and they are very outgoing and friendly even in strange environments.

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