Where have all the German Shepherds gone?

[Samba]

I know we have had some discussions about this on the board regarding where the American's have taken the breed.

I just got an issue of The German Shepherd Quarterly. Admittedly, I have not spend the bucks on it before, but Minnie got her picture in an article so I signed up.

There is an article about "Back to Basics". Will the call be heard?? Is it too late??
H. Gleason starts off listing the dismal entries by GSDs in obedience, agility and conformation. She then goes on to mention the need to pay attention to size, health and longevity. She ends with, "We do not want to turn them into a Toy breed who only brings love and joy to their owners and are wonderful couch potatoes."

V. Roye gives it a good go in her part of the Back to Basics section. She exhorts the members of the show fancy to begin to train their dogs in ANY endeavor beyond the minimums such as PT,CD, RN, etc. She states that until this occurs they will never understand what it takes to have an OTCH dog, a MACH dog, successful SAR dog or ScH III.

I must say that as a person on the periphery for some 12 years I was so struck by the lack of training many breeders do and that the few titles earned were usually at the minimum level.

She goes on to say that that all dogs will not be suited for all things, but that they should be good at something. More should be able to do the highest level of performance events. She mentions the lack of posts on lists regarding breedings to improve nerve strength? Drive? Biddability? ( I must admit, I do not often get to use this side of my vocabulary with many in the show community). Ms. Roye also calls out the genetic health problems that have become rampant.

Her final point is a valid one, I think. The general public likes GSDs but they are not flocking to the parent cub or to buy show line dogs. The overall view of these dogs is negative.

Well, I have to say that I do agree there is and has been something rotten in Denmark for a long time. I am not sure there will be a pull out of the tail spin though. There don't seem to be many people breeding there who are interested in training or have knowledge of working attributes.

[Liesje]

I don't know if this is any excuse but I've entered a LOT less trials with Nikon as I did with Kenya because of entry fees. I finally entered a Rally trial in a few weeks and it was $28 just for one Rally Novice entry! Plus the rising cost of gas, travel, sometimes taking off work to exhibit... An RAE title....now we're talking a title that probably costs $700 minimum in entry fees alone assuming the dog Qs *every* time. That is a huge reason why a lot of my titles are the "minimum" only. I like to spend my $$$ and energy on training because there's more bang for the buck and it's more fun. Nikon has been trained through RE since he was about a year old but why pay $28 per entry (which would be x9) when I could attend a great seminar for less, or pay several months SchH dues which cover three of my dogs at a time? I'd rather pay my Rally instructor $28 for an hour of her time setting up mock courses for good practice. This is probably not the answer you're looking for but this is my excuse!

[Samba]

Yes, the fees have really risen. I used to take three dogs at a time to obed trials. Now, I don't. Okay, I figured out that was crazy but it is also too expensive today. I have not seen a rise in GSDs as the breed of choice in AKC events. I don't know why that is because my sense of things was that the European lines had gotten more popular. I thought I would be seeing more.

I can't imagine spending those RAE bucks, let alone RAEx! Hey, get that Nikon going on CD, CDX And UD!

Of course, the larger part of this is the lack of breeders showing or producing dogs that are acheiving titles at the highest levels as well as going around in conformation.

[Xeph]

She mentions the lack of posts on lists regarding breedings to improve nerve strength? Drive? Biddability?

Because the truth is that most show line people don't KNOW what nerve strength means :-/ Nor do they understand true drives. i do not know everything about drives and the like, but i do know more than (and pay attention to more than) a few people.

i constantly hear that people don't do performance beyond a basic level (if at all) because they're not interested, and the moment people suggest that a dog have a performance title at the back end of their name, they say "Well then we should hold the performance dog to the same standard", which is just...well...asinine. There could be (and there are) whites out there that are amazing, sound, working dogs, but they can't win in the conformation ring because of their color. People just don't want to work their dogs, and "this is a free country" so no one can make them.

They do not support performance. Heck, somebody complained about the Review this month because there weren't enough pictures of show dogs.

Way to show support...

We're in Raleigh, NC this week for the big cluster, and you know what? i spent $200 on what is little more than a glorified match. Out of the 11 dogs that were to show on Wednesday, 7 were exhibited. Today out of the 12 that were to be shown, 6 were exhibited. That is ONE point in bitches and 0 in dogs unless the judge gives the male BOW.

The specialties that are being held in conjunction with the all breed? Friday count? 4-12 (2-0) Saturday? 5-12 (1-0) The specialty made a 3 point major in bitches by TWO, and i am 99% sure that major will break.

[selzer]

After two years of mostly being unemployed, my shows and training have gone way down.

Now I am entering the two shows our club puts on, the Cleveland Classic, and the show here in town because they support the clubs that I am most interested in keeping going. Gas and everything does make a huge difference when you are working on nothing coming in. And entrance fees are too high.

I also tried to move my whole crew in training and titling along, rather than focussing on one of them.

At our show last weekend, I went and congradulated all the shepherd people that I noticed getting title legs or placing with their dogs. If you took all the dogs at the show, GSDs would not look like the #2 dog in popularity, but we were pretty well represented. What there was almost none of was labs. I was absolutely shocked that there was like one lab at the show -- the dog that jumped the fence and charged into a border collie -- now you might expect that from one of our bad boys, but from a lab?

Anyhow, AKC obedience and rally seems to be geared more toward border collies, goldens, and shelties than working breeds. But maybe there are fewer in these venues because their owners have them in herding or in schutzhund, etc. Or maybe it is more that people who want to go for OTCH titles pick their breed on how successful the breed is in the venue. Kind of backwards, having a breed of dog and finding a good sport for it, as opposed to finding an appropriate breed for a particular sport.

[Whiteshepherds]

Originally Posted by selzer

Anyhow, AKC obedience and rally seems to be geared more toward border collies, goldens, and shelties than working breeds.

How so?

[selzer]

They are the ones in there doing it, they are the ones with huge numbers at every show I have ever been at. Maybe it is because they are so crazy that without some type of outlet, their dogs would not be livable. Maybe it is because they do very well at all the different parts. Maybe it is because there is no schutzhund-type venue for them. I do not know. Maybe it is their stepping stone to what they really want to do with the dogs -- agility.

[Elaine]

I've been competing in AKC obedience forever and the GSD has never been well represented in obedience. We would occasionally get the breed people running over to try and get a really ugly CD and that's about it. They just have never been interested in the performance aspect and were pretty open about that. Obedience has always been predominantly goldens, shelties, and border collies.

As far as agility is concerned, there are very few GSDs competing in my area and those few are mostly workingline. There are more breed dogs that train in agility, but it's mostly just for fun as their dogs can't jump or run well enough to compete.

[Samba]

i constantly hear that people don't do performance beyond a basic level (if at all) because they're not interested, and the moment people suggest that a dog have a performance title at the back end of their name, they say "Well then we should hold the performance dog to the same standard", which is just...well...asinine. There could be (and there are) whites out there that are amazing, sound, working dogs, but they can't win in the conformation ring because of their color. People just don't want to work their dogs, and "this is a free country" so no one can make them.

They do not support performance. Heck, somebody complained about the Review this month because there weren't enough pictures of show dogs.

Well, this is a problem because they just want to play with the physical mechanics of the dog and loose the rest. I won 't say that showing is not hard because I am finding it exhausting and a lot to learn. I can't imagine not doing more with a dog though. Of all breeds to have taken such a strong stand basically forgetting the rest of the dog.

Well, the numbers are dismal and I keep hearing it all the time. Oh well, may never finish!

Selzer- what makes the venue more for other breeds? I haven't really thought about that.

I don't have the numbers but I really think GSDs used to better represented, in obedience at least.

[Whiteshepherds]

Originally Posted by selzer

They are the ones in there doing it, they are the ones with huge numbers at every show I have ever been at. Maybe it is because they are so crazy that without some type of outlet, their dogs would not be livable. Maybe it is because they do very well at all the different parts. Maybe it is because there is no schutzhund-type venue for them. I do not know. Maybe it is their stepping stone to what they really want to do with the dogs -- agility.

In your OP: "Anyhow, AKC obedience and rally seems to be geared more toward border collies, goldens, and shelties than working breeds."

I thought you meant the exercises in rally and obedience favored other breeds.