Sorry, but I gotta ask?

[W.Oliver]

On the other thread, “A few philosophical questions….”, we conceptually established several key points;

A.) GSD should have a job
B.) Divergence exists between lines “types”
C.) Organizational unification is not likely
D.) Organizational separation of working lines is not desirable

I think the open discussion points were education and economics. The accountant in me would like to focus on the market and explore supply & demand.

On the previous thread we hit on the economics, where the notion “greed and politics have ruined our breed”, or how about, “It's a huge market, and there is every shape and flavor of dog to fill the needs, and in our breed, there are as many types as the market will bear”….and even better, “…it is simple demand-supply economics. We hit a tipping point where everyone wanted to own a GSD - quality is obviously compromised when the scale is expanded”.

So is that it, our breed is a collection of types, each customized to the wants, needs, and desires of various owner groups? Is that wrong?

[FredD]

Is it?

[Raziel]

Sorry not very good on these kinds of questions, but I think its good people (some) bred the dog how they want it.
A "regular family" (ie my mom & dad & 3 brothers) deff would not have time to meet Kilos needs.
I would NOT reccomend my family getting a dog from his working lines.
He need to be outside ALL THE TIME & be playing or taking commands.
My family sometimes doesnt undertand why hes so high strung. But thats how his lines are. I like being active & going outdoors.
I got Kilo for a friend & compainion.
He needs so much attention & excersise that HE pretty much made me quit smoking ciggerettes as I could not keep up with him.
My gfs GSD is SOOOO laid back you would NOT believe it.
Well sometimes its lines & sometimes just the personality.
I think its kinda good that people (again, some) bred this dog to be either very very active or just "normal".
Im not sure if Im making sense here.
I should stop before I ake myself look like a goon.

Dont like BYB though who just say "Oh our dogs look the same, lets make puppies"

[selzer]

Quote: Dont like BYB though who just say "Oh our dogs look the same, lets make puppies"

You forgot to add, "and sell them" to the end of that.

[Doc]

Happy Holidays Wayne.

I should of know you were a bean counter - LOL.

Are those rhetorical questions? If not, I would like to know your thoughts before I submit mine.

[W.Oliver]

Doc,

I was worried you weren't going to jump in.....if I don't have you to spar with....whats the point!

Becoming a real GSD person is a process. A journey of awareness. One of the things that both confused me and impressed me early-on in my GSD learning trip (not necessarily in a positive way) was the stone throwing from aficionados of one type to the other. While at the same time, popular opinion (as surveyed here, and limited as it may be) seems to be working line separation is not desirable.

I am asking, in lieu of unification, and to avoid working line separation, would it be reasonable to establish recognized "types", where Type 1 is strictly a show ring dog (American/Canadian line), Type 2 is a show and Breed Survey dog (West German Red&Blacks), and Type 3 are schutzhund, herding (working lines) which would then have their place in the conformation ring?

Imagine Westminster with three GSD "Types" shown in the conformation ring, each meeting their respective requirements to be there.

[Ruthie]

Can I ask a stupid question?.... Good.

Is there one single breed standard? If so, who owns/controls it?

[Doc]

Wayne,

I have been reprimanded in here by the forum demi- Gods so my comments will be very generic. Besides, I think you and I understand each other's point of view.

I think unification is the only real answer BUT since this forum disagrees, let's just separate the types, then take all the first place dogs from each type and have them face off with each other and award 1 Grand Champion. This event will be judged by the public - no bias judge will get a chance to determine the winner.

Or award points throughout the year for all the activities and shows a dog is entered and placed - then at the end of the year the one with the most points wins. No show or activity is weighted anymore than the others so the dog that is "scores the best" in all the events will be the grand champion.

A single breed standard? - Good Lord no! No one entity owns it or controls it - that is one reason there is such a mess.

PS It amazes me that that our last forum was shut down - it had 251 posts - a HUGE number compared to the normal number. Come to think of it, the threads with the most posts usually involve the folks that present a different point of view than masses in here ... hhhmmmmm, imagine that.

Wayne, have you read the book - Death by a Meeting? A wonderful story about disagreement and passion resulting in a better overall solution.

[FredD]

Originally Posted By: Doc




A single breed standard? - Good Lord no! No one entity owns it or controls it - that is one reason there is such a mess.

PS It amazes me that that our last forum was shut down - it had 251 posts - a HUGE number compared to the normal number. Come to think of it, the threads with the most posts usually involve the folks that present a different point of view than masses in here ... hhhmmmmm, imagine that.

Your right, Doc

[trudy]

Ruthie the only stupid question is the one not asked. I always told my kids if you have a question ask it because I guarantee someone else wants to know the answer but may be afraid to speak up.
There is 1 standard, all should be bred to align as closely to it as possible. Therein lies the problem, each person or group interprets it differently. I hate when so many people here put the Am/Can show lines as not able to do anything but gait around a ring. There are lots of breeders who like these dogs and are breeding for dogs able to work. There are German Showlines without a roached back who can work and move as well. Then of course the same for the working lines, somem who can work with a shut off switch.

When reading a standard and it says for instance long muzzle, what does it mean? 4 inches, 6 inches, 7 inches? I picked the least offensive I think, to use as an example. If comparing working ability is it the dog who is calm and cool but when given a job can do it or the one who jumps up and down until given the job? Is it the one who never has a chance to do a job and then when shown excels or one who does it from 8 weeks on its own?

I hope I made some sense, I am for 1 breed, everyone allowed to compete together, and more people o speak up for health and temperment and legislation if it comes to that.