No heat please! Civilized discussion!

[GranvilleGSD]

So, when I received my September issue of the GSDCA German Shepherd Dog Review, I noticed some pictures that I'd like to point out to people. I AM NOT TRYING TO BASH ANY PARTICULAR LINES, DOGS, OR BREEDERS, I just wanted to illustrate a highly debated issue in the German Shepherd breed over what has happened primarily in the American show ring. First, I will post an illustration from our pal Linda Shaw and her wonderful illustrated breed standard.

According to fancy angles, math, etc. this is what the ideal gaiting GSD should look like.

Next, from page 28, there is low and behold and article entitled "Form and Function." There is what I would label a well-balanced GSD pictured with this article (HC Hillside Von Weiden's Eclipse UD, HXCs). Now, I don't know this dog or anything about it, but chances are, it would not place well in the conformation ring. Obviously, this dog can do it's herding job well by earning a herding champion title, as well as obtaining a high level obedience title, so isn't this the type of dog that should be winning in the breed ring? The movement looks very natural and effortless. I was told by a fellow exhibitor once that the front foot should reach well past the nose when gaiting. If you look at dogs that exhibit this extreme gait in a stacked pose, they are usually the dogs that have "no front" or very steep upper arms I believe it would be called, please correct me if I'm wrong. This dog's front foot doesn't reach past the nose, so my guess is likely it wouldn't even get a second glance from the judge. Sorry, I cut off his hind leg when scanning since it was in the crease of the magazine.
As a side note, she had an OFA good and elbows normal. She was born in 1991.

Flip just 2 more pages to page 32 and we see an advertisement for stud service to a champion male (CH Cade of Fran-Jo). Again, I know nothing about this dog or breeders. Compared to the standard, and the working dog, this dog looks like he's trying too hard. His front foot goes well past his nose, and his back foot goes well past his front foot. He also looks as if he's putting lots of effort into this movement and that he's running on a hill, even though the ground appears to be level. Chances are he earned his championship easily, as he is also pictured on the next page as BOB with his high placing progeny.
Cannot find any OFA information on this dog.

I didn't include any German showline dogs, as there aren't any in this particular magazine. But breeders and judges really need to take a step back and look at what they are producing and what they are promoting. Take off the kennel blinders and become an expert on the standard and think about the function of the dog. A GSD is a working dog, regardless of if you want to say herding or schutzhund was their purpose, it's all working and a structurally unsound dog cannot work. Again, I don't want to bash anybody, or lines, I just wanted people to do a side by side comparison and discuss.

[IliamnasQuest]

Well, all I can say from looking at the two photos is that the second dog has his hock laying ON THE GROUND which can't possibly be good movement. The first dog pictured - the one with the real titles - is the type of dog I would choose anyday over the hock-dragging dogs. And the first dog definitely meets the illustration of the trotting GSD much more than the second dog does.

I often wonder how many of those who are breeding for the over-angulated, hock-dragging type of conformation dog actually do anything ELSE with their dogs? Do they get out and run through woods, jumping over fallen logs after an occasional rabbit? Do they herd? Do they hike with them, take them to the beach and let them run in the sand and the muck and the occasional big wave? Or do these dogs mostly live in concrete kennels and only come out to stretch their legs during shows or practices?

I really find it pathetic that the general public has been led to believe that a conformation championship is "THE" top title a dog can get. How many unsuspecting pet people buy a dog because it's from "championship lines" and end up with a dog that isn't physically capable of doing the things they want - and often mentally not capable of it too (I have seen a definite change in the intelligence of the different styles of shepherds ... American showline dogs tend to be less intelligent, less intuitive than working line dogs (from my own experiences).

A German shepherd should be capable of being a working dog even if it's just a pet.

Melanie and the gang in Alaska
... with my working pet dogs, chows and shepherds!

[BlackPuppy]

Now I knew nothing about GSDs before I got my first dog, but that second picture is part of the reason why I did not choose the breed. Just my opinion, but it looks deformed. Another of my reasons is that I wanted a smaller dog, plus less shedding.

That herding dog looks much better!

[ShatteringGlass]

Everything about the first dog's structure is soooo much better, the reach, the flatter topline, the second dog even appears to have a roman nose and barely any stop. I just dont get it either, do breeders of these overdone dogs sincerely think they're dogs meet the standard? I would really like it if someone interviewed a breeder of those kind of dogs and pressure them on how they're breeding AWAY from the standard.

[ahlamarana]

*No offense meant to the ASL breeders who are breeding for a purpose other than the show ring .*

These breeders are breeding to win shows. That's all. It's what AKC breeders do, in all the breeds. Do you think the AKC Ch Labrador is able to hunt or the AKC Ch Doberman is able to do protection work? It would be tough to find the needle in that haystack. It will only change if they ALL decide to change, I'm not holding my breath for it.

When browsing through the schedule for our last AKC conformation show here, I found only 2 or 3 dogs (out of something like 50) who were OFA certified, and maybe half a dozen with a title beyond the HIC (granted, most of the dogs showing are young). I think a lot of AKC breeders (not just GSD) use PennHip, it can be done as early as 16 weeks.

[katieliz]

it is indeed sad what has happened to almost all american showline shepherds. it seems that everything has been sacrificed to exaggerate the gait.

[Effie325]

The first dog is beautiful! You'd have to be blind not to see that is a stunning dog.

[SunCzarina]

The second dog is a champion? Scary. How can he run without stepping on his front leg with that big sloppy hock that's flopping on the ground?

I'll take my DDRs and WGWs thank you. Otto looks like a dumptruck when he's running but he's so fast I can't even get the camera out before he gets to the end of the field.

[Andaka]

The first dog's breeder/owner used to show in AKC conformation shows before she discovered the joys of herding. She bred several champions with OB titles. Now herding takes up all of her time. Eclipse is a beautiful bitch from the West Coast's top show lines. But when comparing the two pictures you have to remember that there are two camps of AM show line breeders -- Specialty show breeders (the 2nd dog belongs in that camp) and all-breed show breeders (the 1st dog, and my dogs, belong in that camp).

[Samba]

Yes, even the little show camp is split. The German Shepherd has been bred down to many "types". Some dogs can do well enough in both rings, but not most. The specialty dog is a dog bred for the specialty ring. It is a particular, perhaps peculiar breeding basically for one small venue. It usually rewards an extreme sidegait. There appear to have been efforts at improvement as dogs are cleaner moving and males more masculine looking. Even temperaments appear sounder from several years ago.

Give me a dog bred for correct and balanced drives, the genetic grip a GSD is to have, rock solid nerves, reliable and appropriate aggression, structure to work, trot and run and jump not just side gait. This type of dog is very difficult to breed for because you can not go for extemes or you will lose in another area of the dog. I love a good looking dog, correct to standard who I can take to any venue. Funny my dogs can do fairly well almost anywhere.... agility, herding, protection, tracking, even dock diving with the labs. There is only venue I can think of where we wouldn't make a passable showing.... yup, you guessed it...specialty show ring. So who is upside down?