Pigment vs color?

[Liesje]

This is sort of silly, but I honestly don't know the difference between "pigment" and "color".

To be fair, I will post my dogs most recent photos. Can you explain to me pigment vs. color using them as examples?

[Deejays_Owner]

When people talk about pigment, it's the black on the dog the "default" color.
Note: an all white dog would have no pigment.
And the Color would be the whole range of tan colors (deep red to light cream).

[Chris Wild]

Actually, "pigment" means different things depending on who you are talking to. When someone talks about pigment, it's important to know which they're referring to, as it can mean different things to different people.

I know a few use it to refer to the amount of black on the dog (so a blanket back would have good pigment and a faded saddle would not) but this is an uncommon and to my knowledge rather incorrect usage.

To some, it refers to the richness of the tan. A cream/silver would have poor pigment, whereas a red like Nikon would have good pigment. In my experience, this is the most common usage of the term "pigment".

To others (and I believe this to be the most correct usage from a technical standpoint) it refers to the leather on the dog. Dogs with black leather (pads, eye rims, nose) have correct pigment. Blues and livers do not. Not because their black hair is blue or liver instead of black, but because their leather isn't black. Whites CAN have good pigment in this sense.

Whereas color just refers to if it's black, Bi, sable, etc...

Using the leather definition, both Nikon and Kenya have good pigment.

Using the hue of tan definition, Kenya's pigment is ok but could be better whereas Nikon has very good pigment.

[Liesje]

OK, so when critiquing you're really looking at pigment, not so much color since it is what it is? As far as sables, is there a preferences one way or the other? For example, I know Kenya is very very light so is that less desireable over something like say your Wulf? Would she get docked b/c she has this slightly lighter stripe on her nose right now whereas Nikon is solid black?

[Deejays_Owner]

In a critiquing, you will get both when talking about coat.
eg. "wear pigment, with rich color", very common & a big prolem in the High-lines.

Note: your boy would be "very good pigment and color".

This may help ---> Dog Coat Colour Genetics

[Liesje]

Originally Posted By: Deejays_OwnerIn a critiquing, you will get both when talking about coat.
eg. "wear pigment, with rich color", very common & a big prolem in the High-lines.

Yeah I guess that's kind of where I was headed and never knew the difference. I see a LOT of highlines with very little black on the face, very small or faded or "salt and pepper" saddle. So the "rich color" refers to the red but the "weak pigment" is the lack of black and faded saddle?

[Chris Wild]

You'll also hear the terms pigment and color used differently by North American judges vs European judges based on language differences/barriers.

[WiscTiger]

To me Color is what is black, tan, bi-color, etc.

Pigment to me is the hue/tone/intensity of the color.

When I say some thing like I would like to see more black on the mask, in most cases I am talking color, but it it there ans just not as deep or rich then I am talking pigment.

Poor pigment to me is a black/very very light tan color. The light tan was at one point in the gene pool a dark rich tan or red. I think blacks can also have poor pigment when there is fading in the coat that you see a red tinge.

But I think in terms of color as in design, you can take red, change the hue and tone and it looks like a different color, but it is really red that is lightened or darkened.

[Liesje]

Is "color" the same as "pattern"? ie, sable, black and red, etc?

I've had the opportunity to be IN the ring with the judge for a few shows now (taking stacked pics) and so far I think the German judges have just referred to pigment. But in critiques here and other places I've seen people refer to both at the same time and was never quite sure what is what.

Also it seems that often we just say color when we mean pigment? For example I was talking to Nikon's breeder, saying that I liked his "color" and I was referring to his rich black and red, and the amount of black still on his face and back. She agreed he has great "color". But it sounds like we really meant pigment?

[WiscTiger]

Kenya has the same thing with her coat that my Cheyenne has, some times it looks like a nice rich tan and others it looks lighter. Light conditions really play with her pigment. But Raya looks pretty much the same with only a slight color (pigment) variation with different light sources.