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Old 02-07-2009, 10:54 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Angulation, why?

I personally like the look of an athletic dog, a good runner. Why is their such a stress on rear hip angulation? It seems like it's creating unathletic dogs with suceptibility to health problems, but why? Is it just because the AKC standard says so, regardless if logic/consequences?

Thanks,
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Old 02-07-2009, 11:04 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: Angulation, why?

I think that's basicly it.I hate the look too.I am constantly critiqueing the 2 other Shepherd in our class because they are from American show lines.
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Old 02-07-2009, 11:05 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: Angulation, why?

It's just for looks.
Severe angulation causes more hip problems.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the standard does not call for severe angulation. It calls for a slope on the croup, but not a dramatic slope. And yes I have read it.
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Old 02-07-2009, 11:15 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: Angulation, why?

Quote:
Originally Posted By: Matt Smith Why is their such a stress on rear hip angulation? Is it just because the AKC standard says so, regardless if logic/consequences?
The purpose of angulation is to provide a more far reaching, fluid trot. As show breeders have sought to produce a more ground covering, "flying" trot, rear angulation has become more and more extreme.

Quote:
Originally Posted By: Matt Smith Is it just because the AKC standard says so, regardless if logic/consequences?
The AKC standard doesn't actually say so. It is the interpretation and common (seemingly intentional) faulty measurement of angles defined in the standard that leads to this.


Quote:
Originally Posted By: CookieGSDSevere angulation causes more hip problems.
This is a myth. Rear angulation results from the length of the stifle, nothing to do with the hips.

While severe angulation can definitely sacrifice overall athleticism, creating a dog who can trot beautifully but can't gallop or jump well, has slow speed and lacks agility and in many cases can't even walk normally (this being why it occurs in dogs bred for the show ring, but not dogs bred for utility purposes), it does NOT equate to more hip problems. Hip joint conformation has nothing to do with angulation and is not affected by angulation.
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Old 02-08-2009, 12:21 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: Angulation, why?

Quote:
Originally Posted By: Matt SmithI personally like the look of an athletic dog, a good runner. Why is their such a stress on rear hip angulation?
Thanks,
The rear angulation is of the hind limbs not the hips.
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Old 02-08-2009, 01:22 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: Angulation, why?

Excellent reply Chris to CookieGSD's assertion about HD and angulation.!!!
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Old 02-08-2009, 05:30 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: Angulation, why?

A few years ago, the breed with the highest incidence of HD was the British Bulldog. No sloped topline there. It has nothing to do with the topline, rather other factors. And, MANY small mixes have HD, owners only learn about it later on in life when the little dogs get x-rayed for other issues, or when the HD becomes too aparent with other arthritic changes in the hip.
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Old 02-08-2009, 09:48 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: Angulation, why?

Quote:
Quote:A few years ago, the breed with the highest incidence of HD was the British Bulldog. No sloped topline there. It has nothing to do with the topline, rather other factors.
Good point.

The OFA website has statistics on Hip Dysplasia online, from 1974 through December 2008, here - http://offa.org/hipstatbreed.html Bulldogs top that list with over 70% of all dogs evaluated being dysplastic. Golden Retrievers have, percentage wise, more HD in the breed than German Shepherds do ...
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Old 02-10-2009, 11:23 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: Angulation, why?

That website is very interesting, thanks. It's good to know there is no good reason for this.
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Old 02-11-2009, 01:39 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: Angulation, why?

Quote:
Quote: It's good to know there is no good reason for this.
The belief is that with a somewhat longer stifle, the dog can cover more ground per stride while trotting. This is important for the herding dogs as they have to trot for hours keeping the sheep where they belong.

Now, unfortunately, we live in a world where if a little is good, then more is better. So a once useful tool has been horribly exagerated by many breeders in both the German andAmerican show lines.
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