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Old 04-07-2014, 03:20 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Exclamation Thoughts on Pedigree?

Cleopatra Von Favre

Give your honest opinion on her pedigree and breeding lines.. Do you think she will have any problems in the future?
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Old 04-07-2014, 04:34 PM   #2 (permalink)
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anyone?
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Old 04-07-2014, 07:09 PM   #3 (permalink)
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anyone help?
???
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Old 04-08-2014, 10:07 AM   #4 (permalink)
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I'll make a comment and bump it up...

I don't know any of the dogs in the pedigree, but it looks like one of those "grandson of a champion" pedigrees where people buy a dog from a successful breeder, and then breed it based off the accomplishments of the dogs back in the pedigree. Your dog seems to be the 3rd generation (2 removed) from any real show dogs that have titles on them.
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Old 04-08-2014, 10:17 AM   #5 (permalink)
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West German show line pedigree, though I agree with martemchik that it looks to be a couple generations removed from serious breeding. There are some well known, successful dogs in the pedigree a couple generations back but as I'm not well versed on show line pedigrees I can't say what those dogs bring genetically. You might want to try just googling some of those dogs to see what comes up.

Not knowing the dogs and just looking at the info on PDB, my only concern might be hips/elbows, and I say that because there are no hip or elbow certifications listed on some of the recent dogs in the pedigree. But that doesn't necessarily mean that they didn't have certs, they might just not be on PDB. You can look those up on the OFA website or ask the breeder for proof of hip and elbow certs.
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Old 04-08-2014, 11:51 AM   #6 (permalink)
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no .
there clearly is deliberate planning . The main thrust is conformation oriented .
If you go back you can see a starting point with all the usual suspects expected from the west German show lines of the 80's .
You also see some lines which ankered the working lines, Marko Cellerland, D Lierberg (Vello x Betty) Pirol Kirschental.
Trienzbachtal was a show kennel that put importance on temperament.
Here is a quote from Fred Lanting while visiting Leo Bucher's Trienzbachtal kennels "I can recall visiting Leopold Bucher’s kennels in Mossbach and being amazed at the remarkable uniformity of his stock. I was also struck with the excellent temperaments of the animals, especially with the Siegerin “Ute”. She was an animal that was completely calm and imperturbable in normal circumstances. I had personal evidence of this! While speaking to Leopold Bucher he suddenly picked “Ute” up and threw her into my arms to demonstrate how placid the animal was. However, a few minutes later when she was suddenly given the command to “guard”, “Ute” was transformed into a lioness! "
---- which is how it is supposed to be.

I think people were non responsive to your question because the names are not familiar to those swimming in the SV pool. Many of the dogs have taken a detour and represent Danish and French breedings .

How is your female ? That is the most important consideration . The actual living , breathing, dynamic animal you deal with on a daily basis.

If you want to delve into the pedigree open a discussion with the breeder . Ask them why they made this pairing , what their plans are. I am sure they would appreciate feed back on your Cleopatra !!
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Old 04-08-2014, 11:58 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Lol...just because there was deliberate planning in the 80s doesn't mean the last two breedings were done with deliberate planning.

This is exactly how many of the byb dogs (not saying your dog is byb OP) are bred. They're one or two generations removed from good, solid breedings out of kennels which didn't care enough to restrict registration. When you see two generation of no working titles or show titles, you can pretty much guarantee that the breedings were done by breeders that didn't care and were just throwing two dogs together.

Sorry, but if the basis for throwing two dogs together is the dogs 20 generations back in the 80s, and you're not taking the time to prove that the current generation is worth breeding...not sure how anyone on here would support that.
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Old 04-08-2014, 12:07 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Feetback is a foreign kennel . I looked into them thinking someone was asking for feed back . Kennel Feetback

there is no published hip or elbow for the sire and dam , does not mean it does not exist -- ask the breeder for proof.

however the sire's sire and dam, and the dam's sire and dam are certified in their respective countries.

take your pick on any Feetback dogs https://www.google.ca/search?q=feetb...w=1260&bih=554
here is a Feetback dog in USA vontannenbluffgsd

Milesavac -- again foreign , not SV https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tTqceoATeMI

these are kennels with a determined goal and they are successful in their results.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7c6ujuaweDQ

you can start to see where your Cleopatra got her colour and looks from. Take your pick https://www.google.ca/search?q=miles...ih=554&dpr=1.5

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7c6ujuaweDQ

the one thing I would have concern me is the number of dogs with fast normal -- I would want to see a push through for a higher rating of normal .
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Old 04-08-2014, 12:09 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by martemchik View Post
Lol...just because there was deliberate planning in the 80s doesn't mean the last two breedings were done with deliberate planning.

This is exactly how many of the byb dogs (not saying your dog is byb OP) are bred. They're one or two generations removed from good, solid breedings out of kennels which didn't care enough to restrict registration. When you see two generation of no working titles or show titles, you can pretty much guarantee that the breedings were done by breeders that didn't care and were just throwing two dogs together.

Sorry, but if the basis for throwing two dogs together is the dogs 20 generations back in the 80s, and you're not taking the time to prove that the current generation is worth breeding...not sure how anyone on here would support that.

so much to understand , isn't there?
this is not the case here.
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Old 04-08-2014, 03:42 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carmspack View Post
no .
there clearly is deliberate planning . The main thrust is conformation oriented .
If you go back you can see a starting point with all the usual suspects expected from the west German show lines of the 80's .
You also see some lines which ankered the working lines, Marko Cellerland, D Lierberg (Vello x Betty) Pirol Kirschental.
Trienzbachtal was a show kennel that put importance on temperament.
Here is a quote from Fred Lanting while visiting Leo Bucher's Trienzbachtal kennels "I can recall visiting Leopold Bucher’s kennels in Mossbach and being amazed at the remarkable uniformity of his stock. I was also struck with the excellent temperaments of the animals, especially with the Siegerin “Ute”. She was an animal that was completely calm and imperturbable in normal circumstances. I had personal evidence of this! While speaking to Leopold Bucher he suddenly picked “Ute” up and threw her into my arms to demonstrate how placid the animal was. However, a few minutes later when she was suddenly given the command to “guard”, “Ute” was transformed into a lioness! "
---- which is how it is supposed to be.

I think people were non responsive to your question because the names are not familiar to those swimming in the SV pool. Many of the dogs have taken a detour and represent Danish and French breedings .

How is your female ? That is the most important consideration . The actual living , breathing, dynamic animal you deal with on a daily basis.

If you want to delve into the pedigree open a discussion with the breeder . Ask them why they made this pairing , what their plans are. I am sure they would appreciate feed back on your Cleopatra !!
Thank you for your impute, Cleopatra is my first GSD, she is six months now. Cleo will be getting her pin hip checked at the end of this month. I am worried because I don't know if her parents have had their hips and elbows certified. She is very calm, loves children, people, and other dogs. She is very well behaved for most part. She will be staring off leash training soon. What I am worried about is her hips and her health in the future.
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