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Old 02-05-2013, 09:12 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Pedigree eval?

Any thoughts on what to expect out of this breeding? I have my thoughts but want to hear others.

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Old 02-05-2013, 09:44 PM   #2 (permalink)
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The details of the pedigree and parents are restricted to registered viewers. You do have a good change of getting a sable
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Old 02-06-2013, 01:33 AM   #3 (permalink)
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good logical pedigree with planning evident for a strong confident dogs with desire to work -- look into Mike and Mona Pixner for the core combination --
I would expect pushy determined dogs with strong natural instinct , easy to motivate , resilient , tough guys . Not reactive . Not edgy .
Nice !
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Old 02-06-2013, 01:59 AM   #4 (permalink)
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He's a breeder I'd buy a dog from.
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Old 02-06-2013, 08:47 AM   #5 (permalink)
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the dam is NZ and has a ZW of 99.....she is line bred on some dogs with less than great hip production....theoretically, the hips 'average' out - but you can still get the same hip structure as a parent/grandparent just like you can get the same croup, ear set, feet etc....

In Europe, I think they tend to be more accepting of the risk of bad hips in a litter, puppies are less expensive and often more of a commodity than here. It is not prioritized or taken as emotionally seriously as it is in this country...cultural difference and one to be aware of when you look at foreign litters.

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Old 02-06-2013, 10:27 AM   #6 (permalink)
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I would expect fabulous working temperament. Hard dogs with strong drives, very good nerve, strong aggression in bitework, excellent work ethic and instinctive behavior. But I would worry about joints. As much as I love Ernst myself, I'm not sure I'd linebreed on him (or in this case a very close linebreeding on littermate offspring of Ernst) for that reason. There are some nice hip genetics coming from other areas of the pedigree which might be enough to offset that risk.
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Old 02-06-2013, 12:27 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Thanks for the responses thus far. What you all have mentioned is what I saw seeing as well. Dogs with excellent working temperament that will have a good amount of aggression, drives, etc. I would say that hip issues would be in the back of my mind but wouldn't stop me from buying a pup.

@Chris - I did think about the linebreeding on Ernest as I remember the thread about him in which you gave a lot of insight on him in a ped as well as the linebreeding on him.

@Carmen - I see it the same as well. Dogs that you certainly have to earn their respect so they can work with you and not against you. Definitely not dogs you can force to do something.

@MsK - Yes. Hannes is a good guy and I bought my pup from him who turns a year old this month. I wouldnt hesitate to get another pup from him.
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Old 02-06-2013, 12:51 PM   #8 (permalink)
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I remember reading a thread on PDB where someone mentioned the fact that the lines that produce really strong dogs with great working temperament can have a high chance of hip issues if you take into account the ZW score.

After some research I see it is true. Peko Haus, Korbelbach, Haus Pixner, Konigshohle... When looking at ZW scores many are in the 90's and 100's.
Interesting as these kennels are known for producing tough dogs with excellent nerve and workability. IMO I rather take all the other traits and take a gamble on the hips.
Thoughts?

I wouldn't though gamble on the other traits and NOT have to really worry about hips.

After this breeding, where would you all go breeding wise after it? I was thinking about going somewhere with a hip improver. A good direction that I have noticed many go in with a breeding like this would then take this dog to a nice dog with Vito in the 2nd or 3rd generation. The same type of dog though and not just a random nice looking pedigree.
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Old 02-06-2013, 09:08 PM   #9 (permalink)
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I wouldn't gamble on the hips nor for that matter any other traits when I am paying that much money for a pup. I would look around, wait, and get the best I could afford. Also, if I wanted a pup with the goal of competing in IPO, I would consider the US bred pups from strong working lines that have titled parents and at least 3 generations of good hips.
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Old 02-06-2013, 10:24 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Sweet!.....though I have a lot of these genetics....for the people getting these pups, short of any health issues a very very nice breeding.
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