Pedigree eval?

Ace952 · 02-05-2013, 09:12 PM

Any thoughts on what to expect out of this breeding? I have my thoughts but want to hear others.

Zwinger aus der Königshöhle (Zuchtmiete): Zucht von Yello aus der Königshöhle und Eliza aus der Königshöhle bei Working-dog.eu)

Mary Beth · 02-05-2013, 09:44 PM

The details of the pedigree and parents are restricted to registered viewers. You do have a good change of getting a sable

carmspack · 02-06-2013, 01:33 AM

good logical pedigree with planning evident for a strong confident dogs with desire to work -- look into Mike and Mona Pixner for the core combination --
I would expect pushy determined dogs with strong natural instinct , easy to motivate , resilient , tough guys . Not reactive . Not edgy .
Nice !

Mrs.K · 02-06-2013, 01:59 AM

He's a breeder I'd buy a dog from.

wolfstraum · 02-06-2013, 08:47 AM

the dam is NZ and has a ZW of 99.....she is line bred on some dogs with less than great hip production....theoretically, the hips 'average' out - but you can still get the same hip structure as a parent/grandparent just like you can get the same croup, ear set, feet etc....

In Europe, I think they tend to be more accepting of the risk of bad hips in a litter, puppies are less expensive and often more of a commodity than here. It is not prioritized or taken as emotionally seriously as it is in this country...cultural difference and one to be aware of when you look at foreign litters.

Lee

**Chris Wild** · 02-06-2013, 10:27 AM

I would expect fabulous working temperament. Hard dogs with strong drives, very good nerve, strong aggression in bitework, excellent work ethic and instinctive behavior. But I would worry about joints. As much as I love Ernst myself, I'm not sure I'd linebreed on him (or in this case a very close linebreeding on littermate offspring of Ernst) for that reason. There are some nice hip genetics coming from other areas of the pedigree which might be enough to offset that risk.

Ace952 · 02-06-2013, 12:27 PM

Thanks for the responses thus far. What you all have mentioned is what I saw seeing as well. Dogs with excellent working temperament that will have a good amount of aggression, drives, etc. I would say that hip issues would be in the back of my mind but wouldn't stop me from buying a pup.

@Chris - I did think about the linebreeding on Ernest as I remember the thread about him in which you gave a lot of insight on him in a ped as well as the linebreeding on him.

@Carmen - I see it the same as well. Dogs that you certainly have to earn their respect so they can work with you and not against you. Definitely not dogs you can force to do something.

@MsK - Yes. Hannes is a good guy and I bought my pup from him who turns a year old this month. I wouldnt hesitate to get another pup from him.

Ace952 · 02-06-2013, 12:51 PM

I remember reading a thread on PDB where someone mentioned the fact that the lines that produce really strong dogs with great working temperament can have a high chance of hip issues if you take into account the ZW score.

After some research I see it is true. Peko Haus, Korbelbach, Haus Pixner, Konigshohle... When looking at ZW scores many are in the 90's and 100's.
Interesting as these kennels are known for producing tough dogs with excellent nerve and workability. IMO I rather take all the other traits and take a gamble on the hips.
Thoughts?

I wouldn't though gamble on the other traits and NOT have to really worry about hips.

After this breeding, where would you all go breeding wise after it? I was thinking about going somewhere with a hip improver. A good direction that I have noticed many go in with a breeding like this would then take this dog to a nice dog with Vito in the 2nd or 3rd generation. The same type of dog though and not just a random nice looking pedigree.

Mary Beth · 02-06-2013, 09:08 PM

I wouldn't gamble on the hips nor for that matter any other traits when I am paying that much money for a pup. I would look around, wait, and get the best I could afford. Also, if I wanted a pup with the goal of competing in IPO, I would consider the US bred pups from strong working lines that have titled parents and at least 3 generations of good hips.

cliffson1 · 02-06-2013, 10:24 PM

Sweet!.....though I have a lot of these genetics....for the people getting these pups, short of any health issues a very very nice breeding.

02-05-2013, 09:12 PM	#1 (permalink)
Ace952 Master Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 752	Pedigree eval? Any thoughts on what to expect out of this breeding? I have my thoughts but want to hear others. Zwinger aus der Königshöhle (Zuchtmiete): Zucht von Yello aus der Königshöhle und Eliza aus der Königshöhle bei Working-dog.eu)

02-05-2013, 09:44 PM	#2 (permalink)
Mary Beth Elite Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Pierre, South Dakota Posts: 1,283	The details of the pedigree and parents are restricted to registered viewers. You do have a good change of getting a sable __________________ Sting Chance von Gaard AKC GSD 2/8/2006

02-06-2013, 01:33 AM	#3 (permalink)
carmspack Crowned Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: ontario - Posts: 5,522	good logical pedigree with planning evident for a strong confident dogs with desire to work -- look into Mike and Mona Pixner for the core combination -- I would expect pushy determined dogs with strong natural instinct , easy to motivate , resilient , tough guys . Not reactive . Not edgy . Nice ! __________________ Carmen ******** Carmspack**

02-06-2013, 08:47 AM	#5 (permalink)
wolfstraum Crowned Member Join Date: May 2003 Location: PA Posts: 8,198	the dam is NZ and has a ZW of 99.....she is line bred on some dogs with less than great hip production....theoretically, the hips 'average' out - but you can still get the same hip structure as a parent/grandparent just like you can get the same croup, ear set, feet etc.... In Europe, I think they tend to be more accepting of the risk of bad hips in a litter, puppies are less expensive and often more of a commodity than here. It is not prioritized or taken as emotionally seriously as it is in this country...cultural difference and one to be aware of when you look at foreign litters. Lee __________________ Csabre Sch1, Hexe Sch2, Bengal, Komet, Kyra, Kira & Kougar v Wolfstraum ~ - Danger Sch1 SAR - ATB~ Kougar Sch3, Kyra Sch3, Cito Sch2, Alice Sch1, Kelsey CD, Ret ~ Basha Sch3, Fenja Sch3 wolfstraum.net

02-06-2013, 10:27 AM	#6 (permalink)
Chris Wild Administrator & Alpha Bitch of the Wild Bunch Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Michigan, USA Posts: 13,033	I would expect fabulous working temperament. Hard dogs with strong drives, very good nerve, strong aggression in bitework, excellent work ethic and instinctive behavior. But I would worry about joints. As much as I love Ernst myself, I'm not sure I'd linebreed on him (or in this case a very close linebreeding on littermate offspring of Ernst) for that reason. There are some nice hip genetics coming from other areas of the pedigree which might be enough to offset that risk. __________________ *Wildhaus Kennels*

02-06-2013, 01:59 AM	#4 (permalink)
Mrs.K Crowned Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 8,467	He's a breeder I'd buy a dog from.

02-06-2013, 12:27 PM	#7 (permalink)
Ace952 Master Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 752	Thanks for the responses thus far. What you all have mentioned is what I saw seeing as well. Dogs with excellent working temperament that will have a good amount of aggression, drives, etc. I would say that hip issues would be in the back of my mind but wouldn't stop me from buying a pup. @Chris - I did think about the linebreeding on Ernest as I remember the thread about him in which you gave a lot of insight on him in a ped as well as the linebreeding on him. @Carmen - I see it the same as well. Dogs that you certainly have to earn their respect so they can work with you and not against you. Definitely not dogs you can force to do something. @MsK - Yes. Hannes is a good guy and I bought my pup from him who turns a year old this month. I wouldnt hesitate to get another pup from him.

02-06-2013, 12:51 PM	#8 (permalink)
Ace952 Master Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 752	I remember reading a thread on PDB where someone mentioned the fact that the lines that produce really strong dogs with great working temperament can have a high chance of hip issues if you take into account the ZW score. After some research I see it is true. Peko Haus, Korbelbach, Haus Pixner, Konigshohle... When looking at ZW scores many are in the 90's and 100's. Interesting as these kennels are known for producing tough dogs with excellent nerve and workability. IMO I rather take all the other traits and take a gamble on the hips. Thoughts? I wouldn't though gamble on the other traits and NOT have to really worry about hips. After this breeding, where would you all go breeding wise after it? I was thinking about going somewhere with a hip improver. A good direction that I have noticed many go in with a breeding like this would then take this dog to a nice dog with Vito in the 2nd or 3rd generation. The same type of dog though and not just a random nice looking pedigree.

02-06-2013, 09:08 PM	#9 (permalink)
Mary Beth Elite Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Pierre, South Dakota Posts: 1,283	I wouldn't gamble on the hips nor for that matter any other traits when I am paying that much money for a pup. I would look around, wait, and get the best I could afford. Also, if I wanted a pup with the goal of competing in IPO, I would consider the US bred pups from strong working lines that have titled parents and at least 3 generations of good hips. __________________ Sting Chance von Gaard AKC GSD 2/8/2006

02-06-2013, 10:24 PM	#10 (permalink)
cliffson1 Crowned Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 3,870	Sweet!.....though I have a lot of these genetics....for the people getting these pups, short of any health issues a very very nice breeding.

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