Hi all, I was wondering if I could get some insight on this pedigree. Dog is not mine, but pedigree is identical to one I'm interested in.
I know there's a lot of Crok/Mink in this pedigree, which a number of you do not like, but I've had a more difficult time deciphering the lines that could potentially balance out this pedigree.
Also, I was wondering if the parents do not show any signs of real concern, what's the likelihood of their off spring having problems? Ie something pops up from the linebreeding.
The Dam was very, very friendly and seemed easy going. The sire was all business and we were instructed not to try and pet him or get physical with his trainer while he was out (no touching). He completely ignored us, but I didn't see anything concerning other than the warning. He was a very attractive, but very intense fellow and man, was he fast!
The puppy at 9 weeks, while not as out going as some of you describe puppies to be, didn't appear have any problems interacting with us. She would rather hang out with us and get scratches than play with one of her pen mates (an 11 week old). She was also not mouthy at all and loved to play with the ball. Honestly, I loved her because she didn't appear to be as "driven" and seemed to prefer people over toys. I have also read warnings on this forum about puppies with reserved personalities though. I didn't see any problems with her behavior, but I confess puppies are not my specialty.
And if anyone has insight about the breeder, I'd be happy to hear that too.
Pedigree: Kenny Vom Brewer
Thanks for your input in advance.
I do not recognize the kennel name so can't help with the breeder.
I happen to like Mink. You do have to watch for looseness in ligamentation. long backs and some uglies. Having the Mink come through Crok just adds to the uglies. Mink did bring aggression and excellent hunt drive.
Crok, on the other hand, needed to be bred and used carefully. Not so much having him once in a pedigree, but when linebred on. There is a nastiness to some of the dogs that is beyond normal social aggression. They can be difficult dogs to handle even by experienced people. Obviously I am generalizing, but when you see something often enough it needs to be mentioned.
How this pup might fit you really depends on your experience as a handler/owner/trainer. Have the parents been worked and titled? No, the titles don't mean everything, but they would tell me more than just your description. :) Did the breeder know the grandparents of the sire and dam? Often I see more of the grandparents than I see the parents in a litter.
When you say reserved what do you mean? The lower drive means nothing depending on the lines. That can change a lot as she matures.
My definition of "reserved" might be different than others.
She liked people and she played, but at the same time she seemed, calm? Composed, maybe? But not distant, if that makes sense. She just wasn't "in your face". She wasn't happy when she was put up, but she quickly quieted down. I liked her a lot, but I've read threads on here and if someone thinks puppy may be "reserved" there were responses that the pup could have some very serious difficulty in the future. I don't want to bring a "monster" in the house so to speak. My natural inclination would be towards a quieter individual.
I don't have any qualms with my ability to handle a higher drive or difficult dog, but I have a family now so it's a little different.
At what age does a puppy start to exhibit different types of drive? Is there a specific timeline for puppy development floating around? I've been looking at the pedigree, but I know it isn't the only important part.
I knew the dogs in my D and E litters may be later maturing or show drive later on because I did a lot of research of the dogs behind them. I was a bit surprised just how long it took, but not that it did take time. Donovan started to show drive for a ball by about 8 months. I didn't do any drive building. They either have it or they don't. Now he is a nut for toys. Deja was a very laid back easy going puppy. That is not the dog I have now. She started to bloom after a year. The E litter boys started to show more as they got older, but some people would have dumped them as puppies. Now drive is not an issue.
Knowing how much the puppy might change is best answered by the breeder.
woooo! would stay away from this one.
While I wouldn't run away from a calm puppy, I do prefer one for my home to be playing, outgoing, and a little ball of excitement simply because I prefer over the top sociability at that age to aloofness that may intensify later on. That being said, I know nothing about pedigrees so I can't help you there. :)
I cannot help you with the breeder and I cannot help much with the actual pedigree - my personal experience with Crok/Mink is limited to a single young dog with Crok only once in the fifth generation and I have no experience with the other dogs in the pedigree. My dog exhibits none of the nastiness noted by Lisa (quite the opposite), but again, Crok/Mink appears only once a ways back and there are much stronger influences in the pedigree. Rather than weigh in with my opinion, following are some thoughts that came to mind in no particular order:
First, given what Lisa mentioned and the generalities out there, the breeder's knowledge and experience with the particular dogs and the bloodlines would be critical to me. While there are always uncertainties in breeding, I would want some level of predictability as to what can be expected (and not expected) of the breeding. That comes from in depth knowledge and lots of experience.
Second, consider your circumstances. For instance, there are things that I may be willing to risk or to tolerate if I were a single guy living alone that I am entirely unwilling to undertake as a married guy with young children.
Third, what is the primary reason you are getting the dog - family companion, sport, protection, etc.?
Fourth, whether the dog is male or female may influence the analysis. I have a supposition - those with more experience can correct me if I am wrong - that the "nastiness" which arises in some lines (I am not just talking about Crok/Mink, but am thinking of some DDR lines, etc.), tends to manifest in males more so than females. In researching Mink, I have come across the following notion on more than one occasion: get Mink through a female. You see this to an extent in the pedigree you provided - Crok coming forward through females.
Fifth, go back and reread Lisa's posts!
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