DDR/Czech West line Mixes?

[Liesje]

Ooooo yeah, hey I want one of those puppies too! lol

I didn't really "decide" to breed him (I'm not doing any breeding myself, don't own a female and don't plan to) but had a few people interested pending him finishing his breed survey and a few other things, it's really their decision whether or not to use him but they seem confident about it and I trust that they know their bitches and their lines. Since I'm not breeding him myself I decided to keep a puppy. I know it's just one puppy and will not be indicative of all the puppies produces, but better than nothing and I'd like to see how he produces and make sure it's not total crap! Plus I have always been interested in these combinations even though they seem to have such a stigma among GSD people. I guess I'm willing to take the risk, be responsible for the dog, and see what becomes of it and the breeder is too. The female is a DDR working line. The two other possibly litters lined up for 2013 are WGSL females.

[Lucy Dog]

Yeah... should be interesting to see how they turn out. I know the stigma, but the way I look at it, all puppies are risks to some degree. A good dog is a good dog.

For me it's between that litter and a two other full working litters. My current one is a cross, so I've got a thing for them and that's why this litter is so interesting for me.

We'll see how it turns out... should be an interesting summer. Warm weather can't come soon enough. Good luck with your next nikon pup!

[HarleyTheGSD]

Varick is DDR/German show line/Czech (1/2 DDR--Sire was pure DDR, Dam's Sire and Dam were 1/2 German Show). He has excellent drive and is very confident, and he can even be a sweetie. I love DDR, WGSL, and Czech so I am perfetly fine with his cross. As long as he has the temperament, that is.
I, personally, think that he is very pretty, and cannot wait to see what he will look like mature!

Varick at 17 weeks

[carmspack]

here is one on Sumo Bazita vom Olympus
Bazita Olympus --
and Rampa SchH 3 highly praised by Diegel and the Vollraths and multi high in trial schutzhund was a progeny of Yeuletts Bastian Wagoner , son of Bastian Odenburg and Vashta Spezialblut (working) but the dam of Rampa was Yeuletts Indian Surprise which had American show common to the early 1980's .
There is not one doubt about Rampa as an individual dog and for what he was able to produce - which included many rcmp SAR dogs working out of Alberta, high trialing schutzhund dogs - and when merged with my lines in this combination Carmspack Sabrina I put the emphasis on what I like , preparing to take it forward .
Chilkoot became a police dog as did his son .
Another son went to multi millionaire family that wanted and needed personal protection and made it clear that if you failed you would hear about it -- dog was perfect , another went to a radio station owner - Toronto's Olde wealth - and I kept Sabrina who produced service dogs and is vital in my overall breeding program .

Ruth continues to incorporate the occassional show line dog . Her evaluation is sharp and demanding , apparently she has found a dog that fits the bill. I do not go out of my way to bring in show lines but may on occassion inherit them .

[carmspack]

this is not a formula "
All I mean by the appearance is the black and red. I love it I don't like the show lines who have no schutzhund abilities, but there are a lot of lines that excel in sieger as well as work, though I agree not typically as well as a strict working line. I think that a dog with a very strong working instinct (for a sieger line), who also has great conformation, bred to a nicely built DDR or larger czech would make an excellent dog, but I suppose it depends. "

[xsaysayx]

Originally Posted by 4TheDawgies

I agree there is potential for them to look good.

The concern is that the phenotype on a Czech/DDR dog is quite different than an average sieger type west German showline.

Blending the two has a potential for some good from both sides. But sometimes adding the two together can just create a mish mash of bizarre looking dogs. It all depends on how the breeding is done, the bloodlines, the phenotypes of the dogs etc. So so so much goes into it (and this is only talking about the visual aspects).

That being said, are you saying you like the saddle back look? Or just the vibrant colors? I have seen plenty, and own some working line Czech/DDR/WGWL dogs that have some fantastic pigment and very deep reds to their coats.


I assume you probably like the dark mask, black muzzle, saddle back with red instead of tan coloration like this.

** Huge oversize photo removed. Please no photos over 800X600. Thank you. ADMIN**


This is that same showline male with one of my Czech/DDR/WGWL males. the photo was enhanced with instagram to make them pop more, but you can see that the sable males legs are the same hue of red as the showline males.



But anyways, like everyone else says. It really really depends

Yes, I do prefer the typical markings of a show line (saddleback, etc), but I am mostly referring to the pigmentation. If I own a sable dog, it if definitely going to be a deep red sable, not because I think it is any better than other, just different. Red is my favorite color on any animal.
I agree, sometimes they come out looking horribly gangly and oddly colored. I think if a lot of planning was put into it and instead of, after one breeding with less than perfect results, if someone were to continue working with them it could have some very beneficial results. Those dogs are very gorgeous, though my favorite look is the typical deep red and black saddleback. Just, I am with the working line people in agreeing that the show line breeders are NOT focusing on working ability or temperament enough at all. Most top show lines that are 'schh3' have barely passed the tests, or have faked it. Not to mention most of the top seiger dogs have absolutely no personality. Lol. I think working lines are SO much more fun but I just love the appearance of the sieger lines (minus the roach back) that I dream of a perfect combination :P

[xsaysayx]

Originally Posted by HarleyTheGSD

Varick is DDR/German show line/Czech (1/2 DDR--Sire was pure DDR, Dam's Sire and Dam were 1/2 German Show). He has excellent drive and is very confident, and he can even be a sweetie. I love DDR, WGSL, and Czech so I am perfetly fine with his cross. As long as he has the temperament, that is.
I, personally, think that he is very pretty, and cannot wait to see what he will look like mature!

Varick at 17 weeks

He is beautiful! I think that is a wonderful cross. He looks like he's going to turn out very nicely too.

[onyx'girl]

I would wait to assess a young dog until they are around 3...especially if the dog has DDR bloodlines. What you see at 1 yr 2 yrs isn't necessarily what you'll get at 3. Czech and DDR are not one in the same, and shouldn't be placed in the same 'group'
Kind of like saying Am SL & WG SL's are alike.
I really don't get the reason to blend DDR/WGSL's but I guess the proof will be told eventually, though waiting would be tough, especially if you want to repeat a breeding.

[HarleyTheGSD]

Originally Posted by xsaysayx

He is beautiful! I think that is a wonderful cross. He looks like he's going to turn out very nicely too.

Thank you very much!

[jocoyn]

I had the misfortune of owning a show/working mix who got the worst from both lines.

I imagine the right person can do it and come up with the right results but I am not seeing anything that exists in the showlines (that I have seen/met) that would actually improve the working lines.

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I know Molly at Eichenluft does these combinations but I have only met one of her dogs who was a very nice 100% WL dog.