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Old 12-19-2012, 12:54 PM   #31 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by bethany.cole2013 View Post
That's actually a littermate to the puppies that they have now. I'm not really sure where the information came from that this was their first litter, because obviously it isn't.
It was just a question if they were experienced breeding. Because even with experienced breeders, it would take a LOT of convincing and something that I can personally see in those dogs. Not just taking the word of the breeder.

At the end of the day it's your dog, your choice, your money. If you want the dog you are going to buy it no matter what anyone else here says. But I think there are some things that would make me personally walk away.

But I would like to add one extra part. I have learned some from my poorly bred shepherds. But nothing has taught me more than my well bred dogs versus my poorly bred dogs. The difference in the breeding is very drastic. This is why I personally recommend avoiding poor breeding practices so you can save yourself the heartache, money and trouble.

You may afford yourself a better dog now going with this breeder or another similar. But you may end up paying double or triple that in vet bills because someone doesn't understand the genetics they are playing with.

Like everyone said, you may get a really great dog out of this. Or you may get something really poorly put together. I personally choose to stack my deck in my favor and buy from titled, health tested, temperament tested dogs from knowledgeable people who not only know dogs, but genetics and health as well.
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Old 12-19-2012, 01:15 PM   #32 (permalink)
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Depending on how far you are from Indi I would go spend some time with their club. Good place to get a feel for a lot of different dogs too.
http://www.ogindyschutzhundundpolizei.com/

Lisa,
According to someone we told to go up there, they told they person they are full and not accepting new members.
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Old 12-19-2012, 01:24 PM   #33 (permalink)
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I'm still researching bloodlines and such. There is a guy that is pretty local to me that is selling puppies from this cross. Well, the dam's name isn't the one that I will list, however is a full sister to the one I've listed.

The sire:
Bengiman Von Schone Stadt

The dam's full sister:
LABARA VON SCHONE STADT

What could I expect from a cross such as this?
Is this the Schone Stadt breeder or someone else?
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Old 12-19-2012, 02:50 PM   #34 (permalink)
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What are you talking about...? Have you done your research??? There are loads of people and clubs in this state that are alive and well in schh! BHOT is breeder handler owned and trained, HOT is handler owned and trained through the dog's titles.
Drache Feld :: german shepherd/schutzhund show dogs, but title. Some HOT/BHOT
Schneiden Fels show dogs, but same thing HOT/BHOT
Vom Vrban Haus HOT, upcoming BHOT
K9 Motivation Working Line working dogs HOT
Vom Starken Hund HOT, national level competition dogs
Index rotts, boerboels, occasional working dog
Vom Huelsman German Shepherds training director at greater cincinatti schh club, HOT his dogs
Those are just the few off the top of my head.

Clubs with people titling/training dogs in schh:
Cedar Hill Working Dog Club
Jeff Lund
Woodburn, KY
270-529-2014
Greater Cincinnati SchH Club
Tom Huelsman
Crittenden, KY
859-485-6959
Kentucky Hundesport Klub
Brandon Wilson
Bowling Green, KY
270-202-9250
Kentucky Ridge Hundesport (KY)
Louise Hindert
513-607-0230
Twin Beech SchH Club
Ronnie Hill
Club meets near Scottsdale KY
615-889-2003
Wildcat Schutzhund Club
Dan Cox
Georgetown, KY
502-863-0769




*spot on*
And every single one of those clubs are well over an hour or two drive away from both myself and the breeder. If there were a Schutzhund club in Louisville, it'd be a different story and I wouldn't understand where the breeder is coming from in not having his dogs titled. But, not everyone is capable of driving that far every week or every time there is a show to title their dogs. I've seen FAR WORSE breeders charging way more for their back yard and poorly bred puppies with absolutely zero health clearances. I'm not understanding why I'm seemingly being attacked for trying to learn about this pedigree. I didn't ask for people to criticize me for wanting a pup out of this litter and I dang sure didn't ask for people's opinions on the breeder. I asked for people's opinions on the bloodlines and what they could POSSIBLY produce. I've read the article on what makes a good breeder. I'm fully aware that this isn't the best and first most best choice for a breeder, but it is the best breeder here locally. 99% of breeders here locally to me don't run blood panels on their dogs, don't hip and elbow certify their dogs and they dang sure don't even bother with training and at least wanting to try to title their dogs. Most of them don't even have a clue about the bloodlines that they have and some breeders here are breeding Cont.KC registered dogs with unknown parentage and continuing to charge upwards of $600 for those unknown lineaged puppies. So, this isn't the worst decision of a breeder that someone from my area could choose, but it isn't the best either. I'm well aware of that. And yes, I have done my research. Kentucky is ranked one of the worst states in the nation for animal abuse and neglect and horrible breeders/puppy mills.
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Old 12-19-2012, 02:51 PM   #35 (permalink)
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Sue, that's too bad. The OP could still go watch.
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Old 12-19-2012, 02:55 PM   #36 (permalink)
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An hour or two is not that far.

We have people frm Louisville and Lexington, KY come and train with us. (2.5-3 hours away....). Others from Knoxville.

Husband, for good helperwork, goes to ATL (4.5 hours).

No, you need to do more research or you would have come up with more and active working breeders.
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Old 12-19-2012, 02:58 PM   #37 (permalink)
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Bethany...don't get upset...some posters try to honestly answer your initial post in their response, others who often can't answer but must say something will go into ethical tangents. Just focus on the answers that meet your needs....that's all.
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Old 12-19-2012, 02:59 PM   #38 (permalink)
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And every single one of those clubs are well over an hour or two drive away from both myself and the breeder. If there were a Schutzhund club in Louisville, it'd be a different story and I wouldn't understand where the breeder is coming from in not having his dogs titled. But, not everyone is capable of driving that far every week or every time there is a show to title their dogs.
I drive 1.5hrs each way for one club in Lexington 1-2x a week for the past 1.5 years. I have to drive 1.5hrs for another near Cincinnati. It is 3 hours each way to go up to Ohio to train with Dean Calderon. Planning on going to Sue's club in Nashville this week that is 3 hrs each way. Get my point...?

Here's the plain truth you HAVE to accept if you get into dogs: you MUST be willing to travel, spend significant time, blood, sweat, tears, and money when you plan to breed GOOD dogs. Not being able to travel one or two hrs this way or that way is not an excuse - sorry. I am reminded of what judge Mike Hamilton said at Sue and Gabor's trial in TN last week: if it was easy, everybody would be doing it! Breeding, titling, working dogs takes time, money, and a lot of personal investment. There are plenty doing it right - support those that deserve your business and patronage. It's easy to talk the talk. Anybody can do that - but there are a select few that will go out and walk the walk as well

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An hour or two is not that far.

No, you need to do more research or you would have come up with more and active working breeders.
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Old 12-19-2012, 03:27 PM   #39 (permalink)
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Here's the plain truth you HAVE to accept if you get into dogs: you MUST be willing to travel, spend significant time, blood, sweat, tears, and money when you plan to breed GOOD dogs. Not being able to travel one or two hrs this way or that way is not an excuse - sorry. I am reminded of what judge Mike Hamilton said at Sue and Gabor's trial in TN last week: if it was easy, everybody would be doing it! Breeding, titling, working dogs takes time, money, and a lot of personal investment. There are plenty doing it right - support those that deserve your business and patronage. It's easy to talk the talk. Anybody can do that - but there are a select few that will go out and walk the walk as well
Very true. It is very easy to hand over a dog for training, say that you do not like trialing, it is too far if more than 30 minutes. etc.. But, if the dogs are not worked and tested, you can not say they have the ability to do "x"; be it schutzhund, agility, herding, etc....
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Old 12-19-2012, 03:43 PM   #40 (permalink)
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My last post and this thread and then I will request that it be locked due to no one else providing any relevant information to the original post. My point is, not everyone is ABLE to travel long distances necessarily right now. I'm not saying that I'm not WILLING to travel. I am, but I'm not ABLE to for various personal reasons right now that I won't go into. That's great that you have people from that far willing and able to drive to your club. I'm not able to right now, doesn't mean I won't be able to in the future, so I would appreciate not being hounded and criticized for it right now. I have already said that NOTHING IS SET IN STONE and I haven't committed to getting a pup from this litter. Like I said in my original post, I'm trying to learn as much as I can about bloodlines and such and there isn't any real rush besides my enthusiasm for wanting to get involved in the breed as soon as I possibly can. Now, with that being said I do very much appreciate the people that did offer great and relevant answers. You have been very helpful and that is all I have to say and all I will say at this point.
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