Bear's Pedigree...

[robk]

You have to go pretty far back to get to dogs that came from Germany. Back then the split between working and show line was not as drastic as it is today. The show lines were also pretty good working dogs back then. Your dog is as American line as any other American line dog. If you think about it, if you go far enough back, all German Shepherd dogs originated from dogs from Germany.

[Chris Wild]

All American lines trace back to German lines eventually. This pedigree would be considered totally American. The German dogs are way to far back for it to be considered anything but American. I wouldn't call it American show lines though. He does go back to some prominent and successful American kennels a few generations back, but recent generations have been almost exclusively American breeders who breed for companions rather than show dogs, most of them focusing on oversized dogs.

[Chris Wild]

As far as how to tell the lines, the only way to know for sure is to know the kennel names of the breeders, what country they come from, and what line they breed. Registration numbers can also indicate the country in which a dog was born, but that won't necessarily provide much information about what line the dog is from. Dogs in the US are AKC registered, and that includes dogs of working lines, American show lines, American pet lines, German show lines, BYBs, etc... Language can provide a clue too. If the names are American sounding, they're probably American lines. If the names are in German they may be German lines, but that still won't say if they're German show or working. So the only foolproof way to know what line, or mix of lines, a dog is from is to know the kennels.

[msvette2u]

Originally Posted by Chris Wild

All American lines trace back to German lines eventually. This pedigree would be considered totally American. The German dogs are way to far back for it to be considered anything but American. I wouldn't call it American show lines though. He does go back to some prominent and successful American kennels a few generations back, but recent generations have been almost exclusively American breeders who breed for companions rather than show dogs, most of them focusing on oversized dogs.

If they didn't, they wouldn't be called German Shepherd Dogs

[Jd414]

Thanks everyone


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[carmspack]

Hi - your dog is "american bred" . There is one dog 8 generations back on the sires , top line , which has Jamie Stolzenfels a daughter of Bodo Grafental an East German dog , and further back on her dams line Enno Antrefftal a west German dog of note.
I was interested in Jamie .
Her best litter was to Gauner Kirschental who was a Herding Sieger , which is what you have (see later on pedigree of "Boss")
There was a good article about Jamie in the German Shepherd Quarterly. Gauner Kirschental graced the front cover of this magazine. This dog was used by Fernheim and if memory serves correct they had contributed some dogs to guide dogs USA . I was interested because at the time I had several dogs in guide (certified) and was helping organize dogs for a breeding program - which all fell by the side when the next administration came in and said no GSD! --- any whoooooo . These were some good dogs coming out of those American breedings particularly out of Valiantdale -- I know because I would encounter them and compete against them in obedience trial competition. Valiantdale's Boss von Icon Valiantdale's Boss Vom Icon
was a very correct , solid temperament , easily trained dog -- I had the pleasure of seeing him personally. Now isn't it too bad that this line was swallowed up by the rest of the pedigree of Bear by lines that are pet bred , with a lean toward producing over sized dogs .
In other words expecting this to surface and have any influence on breeding is as good as none .

[codmaster]

Originally Posted by Lucy Dog

Yeah... mostly american show lines with DDR way back. The DDR dog (which has some American lines in him as well) is your dogs great great great grandfather on one side and great great great grandfather on the other, so it's pretty far back. Your dog would be pretty much considered American bred.

The DDR dog is from working lines, but there's no such thing as American working lines.

Huh!

[Lucy Dog]

What? Are there?

I'm sure there are American line dogs that can and do work, but there's no "American working line" per say. Not like the German and Czech working and show split. That's what I meant.

[codmaster]

Originally Posted by Lucy Dog

What? Are there?

I'm sure there are American line dogs that can and do work, but there's no "American working line" per say. Not like the German and Czech working and show split. That's what I meant.

What about the American (and Canadian and Mexican as well) breeders who are breeding dogs for ScH, PP and military or police work, are these not American working dogs? Herding or Seeing Eye dogs? S&R dogs?

Don't you think that there is a split in the American GSD's between show and working, or maybe you think that these are all the same?

BTW, what is a "line"as you use the term?

[Lucy Dog]

Originally Posted by codmaster

BTW, what is a "line"as you use the term?

Just the way the different lines are classified - American show, WG show, EG work, etc.

The OP didn't seem to have much of a grasp of the different lines out there, so I was just trying to answer their question in a basic and simple way.

Wasn't trying to imply American lines can't work and there aren't some American breeders breed them to work because I'm sure there are - though i'm sure they are far and few between too.

Just assuming here, but "a split" with the American lines (pet lines included) is much different than the split with the German lines. I think it's pretty safe to assume that a very high majority of todays American GSD's were not bred with the intention to work or even to show.