What "lines" are WGSDs from?

[arycrest]

Originally Posted by CelticGlory

I didn't read the whole story, but figured this was one of the best places to start History of the White Shepherd, American White Shepherd Association, I never really thought about the question before. Does anyone know if Max's book mentioned the White German Shepherd? What about the Total German Shepherd? I would think that old Shepherd dog breeder's would be amongst the first to even have them, since most farmers don't care about type or color but, workability on the farms.

I wonder if anyone of the Shepherd breeders would remember or have been told where the white Shepherds came from? It says on the site provided above that Ann Tracy had White Shepherd Dog's. Also, this:

"The first reported AKC registration of white coated German Shepherd Dogs were from a litter whelped March 27, 1917 from the Stonihurst Kennels."

The color white is one of the original colors of the German Shepherd Dog when it was developed in Germany.

[Whiteshepherds]

Originally Posted by arycrest

Regardless of what some people want regarding breed separation, the dogs are still GSDs!!! And I'm willing to bet that the majority of breeders who support breed separation breed dogs which are registered with AKC or CKC as GSDs (some may be dual registered as White Shepherds or German Shepherds with UKC).

I wouldn't expect it to be any other way really. Pulling dogs out of the AKC (or CKC) isn't going to help breed recognition happen any sooner. AWSA is trying to work with the AKC, not against them. Jumping ship would make no sense. Why abandon a registry you're trying to work with?
Dual registrations are pretty common.

[arycrest]

Originally Posted by Whiteshepherds

I wouldn't expect it to be any other way really. Pulling dogs out of the AKC (or CKC) isn't going to help breed recognition happen any sooner. AWSA is trying to work with the AKC, not against them. Jumping ship would make no sense. Why abandon a registry you're trying to work with?
Dual registrations are pretty common.

I guess I was thinking that if AWSA members are seeking to register their dogs as a new/different breed, then continuing to register them as GSDs isn't helping their cause. Of course if they were trying to convenience AKC to let the white be a variety it would be different (but it's my understanding, and I may be wrong, AKC no longer allows new varieties). Is there any chance that AKC would accept the BBS as a new breed?

[Whiteshepherds]

Originally Posted by arycrest

I guess I was thinking that if AWSA members are seeking to register their dogs as a new/different breed, then continuing to register them as GSDs isn't helping their cause.

Continuing to register the dogs as GSD's seems to bother some people more than others. It doesn't affect the process or lesson the chance that AWSA's goals will be met. It sometimes confuses the general public but once they understand the reasons behind it, it's usually not a big deal.

Originally Posted by arycrest

Of course if they were trying to convenience AKC to let the white be a variety it would be different (but it's my understanding, and I may be wrong, AKC no longer allows new varieties).

That's right, the AKC no longer allows new varieties. Petitioning the AKC to make an allowance and let the whites become a variety of GSD was something that might have worked given their unusual circumstances if it had been done before the BBS became a distinct breed. I think it would have been an excellant option for the breed and the whites if it had been done 20 years ago. Now it wouldn't make much sense.

Originally Posted by arycrest

Is there any chance that AKC would accept the BBS as a new breed?

First they would have to go into the Foundation Stock Service but yes, I do think that eventually the BBS will be a recognized breed in the AKC. AWSA has gotten past some major hurdles and will keep doing what it needs to do until it happens.

[arycrest]

Thanks for the explanations White....

It will be interesting to see what happens ... hopefully it won't take another 40 years or so to get it resolved

[Andaka]

My main concern with seperating them out is that there are many "pet" or BYB bred dogs that carry the white gene and could produce white puppies from colored parents. Would they be regitered as GSD's or BBS's?

[Freestep]

Originally Posted by Andaka

My main concern with seperating them out is that there are many "pet" or BYB bred dogs that carry the white gene and could produce white puppies from colored parents. Would they be regitered as GSD's or BBS's?

How did they do it in the past with breeds that started as one breed, then were categorized into separate varieties? Like the Belgians? They are considered one breed with four varieties in Europe, while over here they are four separate breeds (I'm counting the Lakenois, not sure if they have AKC recognition at this point). I'm sure that a longhaired pup has popped up in a Malinois litter in the US, is it simply registered as a Malinois with a coat fault? Or as a Tervuren? And if the latter, what is the process? I can see there being pros and cons to each, it could certainly open up the gene pool for Tervurens for better or worse.

It would be a cumbersome situation if you had a white pop up in a well-bred litter; the WGSD people would no doubt want to get their hands on those bloodlines and have the pup registered as their own.

In a BYB litter, it probably doesn't (and shouldn't) matter what the offspring are registered as, since they probably shouldn't be breeding anyway.

[lhczth]

If a Mal shows up in a Terv litter or what ever they are considered a Terv with a fault. They are separate breeds in the AKC. So, if the WGSD is made a separate breed any white pups born to GSD would be in the same situation they are in now. A faulty color in the breed still able to do performance events, but not show in conformation. A separation by variety would have made much more sense.

[Andaka]

In a BYB litter, it probably doesn't (and shouldn't) matter what the offspring are registered as, since they probably shouldn't be breeding anyway.

They might be, and sold as "rare".

[Freestep]

Originally Posted by Andaka

They might be, and sold as "rare".

Of course they will be!

Andaka, do whites ever pop up in American show lines?