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ponyfarm 11-13-2012 04:15 PM

What does SG Ernst vom Weinbergblick bring to a dog?
I have seen this dogs name mentioned recently, and I am wondering what he brings to a dog. I see that some of the good breeders use this dog. My puppy has Mike, then Ernst and just curious as to what this brings?

Ace952 11-14-2012 01:57 PM

Earnst from what I heard brought great drives and hardness. His influence will depend on where he is in the pedigree, the offspring in the particular pedigree (and who he was bred to) and of course the other side of the pedigree.

Do a search on PDB to see if you can come up with more info. Others on here should be able to give more detailed info.

Chris Wild 11-15-2012 10:05 AM

We knew Ernst in his later years after he came to the US, and had 2 litters out of him. All 6 of our own dogs that we have currently go back on Ernst. Wulf is an Ernst son and Raven is an Ernst daughter. Heidi, Mocha and Maika are Ernst grandkids out of Raven, and Jasmine our Czech import has Ernst in her 3rd generation. We also co-own another Ernst granddaughter, and she and 3 other grandkids train in our club. I like Ernst a lot, but like most dogs he had to be bred correctly.

Ernst himself was a very imposing dog with a lot of power, seriousness and presence. Totally approachable but aloof. Tons of drive and intensity. In the bitework he showed tremendous power and a desire to fight and dominate the helper. It certainly wasn't a game to him. My husband worked him a few times and said he was physically very strong, crushing grips, and would use his eyes to bore right through the helper. Outing was an issue, partly due to a temperament that could overload and lack clarity when in the midst of fighting, and partly due to training. He was a dog where pain, pressure, conflict with the handler, handlers having temper tantrums at him, etc... would all create more drive rather than tamping it down, so he could get into a nasty feedback loop where the more pressure and correction that was heeped on him to get him to out and be under control would end up with the opposite effect.

Very hard dog, but not the best team player. Much of that I think was training/handling though. He was deemed "handler aggressive", but that I also believe was manmade. Most of his life was spent with very hard handlers who wanted to dominate and control him to earn points. He was downright brutalized in his early training, mainly over outing in protection, and this was a dog that was going to fight back if treated unfairly or if the handler picked a fight with him, especially when there was no true relationship there. Given a different handler who treated him fairly and gave him time to bond and develop a close working relationship, he worked very differently and became a very different dog. No handler aggression once given a fair handler, and when given time to bond and develop a relationship of mutual trust and respect he would do *anything* for his handler.

Structurally he surely wasn't a pretty dog, though he did look much better in person than in the Urma book photo everyone has seen. Still long and flat withered and unfortunately his less than stellar structure was passed on to many offspring. Hips and elbows could be an issue with him as with most dogs going back on Lewis, so he needed to be bred smartly in that regard.

He produced himself strongly in temperament in his offspring. Strong drive and intensity, very powerful dogs both mentally and physically with very strong work ethic. These dogs love the work itself, they don't need any bribery to do it, and they take their jobs very seriously. Physically hard, but there was some handler sensitivity as well. Though in our case much of that was coming from the dam side. Absolutely no handler aggression whatsoever. Much more biddable and willing to work with the handler than Ernst, which reinforces my belief that a lot of that problem in Ernst himself wasn't the dog but the training. Very loyal dogs who really seek to have a strong, deep relationship with the handler. Social, but with good protective instinct as well. Definitely dogs who will bite for real if given a reason, but not at all trigger happy in that regard. The same overloading during the fight in protection has been an issue with our Ernst son as well, but not with any of the daughters. Excellent tracking and hunt drive. Excellent with children, other dogs (zero DA), and other animals including livestock and cats. Very good nerve and health overall when bred correctly with thought to compensating for the hips/elbows and also to bringing in more clarity and self control to go along with the drive and aggression. Not the prettiest dogs on the planet (well, except Heidi but she has her sire to thank for that!) but I do love what they have between their ears and in their hearts!

wildo 11-15-2012 10:10 AM

Chris- your description amazes me. I wish I had the ability to "see" all that you can see in a dog!

Chris Wild 11-15-2012 10:14 AM


Willy, our first Ernst litter was born early 2004. If after almost 9 years of working and sharing the bed with a pack of Ernst dogs I didn't have a good idea of what they were like, I wouldn't be a very observant person! ;)

wildo 11-15-2012 10:18 AM

Ok, well, yes- I'll give you that. I suspect you're still quite capable of speaking about other dogs that you don't know so intimately though. :thumbup:

Chris Wild 11-15-2012 10:31 AM

I should also add, my description of his production was primarily referring to direct sons and daughters. In the next generation there was much more variance, depending on what other lines were brought in. In our 4 litters of grandkids, 2 of those litters didn't follow at all what we saw in the first generation; one with sharp males and soft females and the other much more sporty and less serious. In the other 2 litters of grandkids the results were much the same as we saw in the litters directly sired by him. So again, like with most dogs, what else is bred in will make a big difference, especially as he gets farther and farther back in the pedigree.

ponyfarm 11-15-2012 09:24 PM

Wow!! Thanks for the thoughtfull reply! My dog is Mike W. and Jabina on top and Eurosport (Erri B ) and Top Pas on the bottom. So far, he is a great companion dog and really having a great time with him. Very interesting to see the critical thinking from knowledgable folks.

About the "not so stellar structure" ...I was raised by horse folk and their motto is..

Pretty is as Pretty Does!

björn 11-17-2012 05:21 AM

Don´t know so much about ernst, popular studs like mike weinbergblick or sid v haus pixner have the females from the v haus pixner M-litter in common, are there other dogs from ernst that are popular that don´t goes back to those females?

Ace952 11-23-2012 10:11 PM


Originally Posted by björn (Post 2631822)
Don´t know so much about ernst, popular studs like mike weinbergblick or sid v haus pixner have the females from the v haus pixner M-litter in common, are there other dogs from ernst that are popular that don´t goes back to those females?

Bjorn...very true. I've noticed that as well with regards to the "M" Haus pixner. Of course you see Mink as his godfather but more importantly is the 4,4-4 on Grief Zum Lahntal. Grief is behind a lot of tough dogs known for aggression & hardness.

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