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Two dogs I really really like... wondering what would their offspring produce

6K views 15 replies 11 participants last post by  BlackthornGSD 
#1 ·
I'm in no way related nor do I know of any planned breedings.

These dogs belong to my TD. I really like both of them... I watch them train every week and while they are not without faults I really like the picture they present want to learn more about their pedigrees, lines, etc.

Of course, I speak to the TD about both dogs and we chat away, but I know there are some people here that know these lines or similar lines and can tell me.

For what it's worth, I'll keep the information on germanshepherds.com and won't go and say "hey this person said this this and that about your dogs". This is just to satisfy my own curiosity but I completely understand if you have reservations answering.

So tell me, what would you expect? What do you think of a hypothetical (as in - in my dreams) breeding? What would you expect? :)

Again, just hypothetical. I have no idea what they plan to do with the dogs but love watching them both work, and Heiko has a superrrr long bite (I know, I help with the helper work) which I do like :) so I was wondering...

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/breeding.result?father=662734&mother=630951
 
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#6 ·
agreed - plus a couple of very nice size doses of aggression/possibly screw you attitude - possibly dangerous aggression - there is a reaon that some dogs never finish titles and one dog in particular is very well known for --- aggression!

Lots of prey from the Guy's Hof dogs, which is overall stable and can also bring some aggression...the czech component can add suspicion and combined with some possibility of iffy nerve strength and aggression -

One of the big problems in breedings is that people breed dogs because they own both of them....dogs kept for sport in kennels are often NOT as understood as dogs who are lived with.....

I think there could be a better breeding choice for both top and bottom by looking elsewhere...This could be awesome sport dogs....but to live with??? Better be really experienced....and prepared for the worst case as well....

Lee
 
#10 ·
One of the big problems in breedings is that people breed dogs because they own both of them....dogs kept for sport in kennels are often NOT as understood as dogs who are lived with.....


Lee
Often forgotten but very true. I get a bit weary of the sport mantra "how do you know a dog if you didn't title it yourself?" while this simple fact that a dog living in a kennel, only removed for training and trialing, is far far too often not as thoroughly understood as a dog who is lived with 24/7 by the person considering the breeding. There are MANY weaknesses that can be easily masked by a halfway decent trainer and a lot of prey drive. Hang out in all live situations with a dog for a few years; you'll see quite a bit if you know what to look for.
 
#7 ·
I agree with the others, definitely this would be a combination completely lacking in balance and geared toward extreme dogs with iffy nerve strength.

As for being great for sport... maybe, maybe not. Plenty of drive for it and a bit of an "edge" to add flash and the appearance of seriousness in protection (though IMO not the correct kind of seriousness a GSD should have), but control could be a huge issue due to drive overloading the nerve strength in this pairing.

Some nice individual dogs in the pedigrees who can bring some very good things if bred right and matched well with other bloodlines to achieve balance. This particular pairing would not be one of those.
 
#11 ·
More drive than I would like to see.......those lines are starting to bottleneck. Where would you breed the offspring of this breeding? Most out crosses would have problems absorbing the drive base o these pups. Just an observation.
This is an interesting concept to ponder. You don't think the drive would moderate in the next generation with an outcrossing to a very stable medium drive partner?
 
#14 ·
The sire--I wouldn't want to add any more Timmy/Troll) or Mink or even Orry. I'd also want to try to avoid adding more Fado(Harro). So, with that said, I've just eliminated almost all of the top sport names.

Look at his linebreeding and the backmassing:

8,6,6 - 7,8,8,7 Greif zum Lahntal
7 - 6,7,7,8,6..................................... in Afra vom Stoppenberger Land
8,8 - 8,8......................................... in V Racker vom Itztal

So where are you going to go with this breeding? It's either go back to more of the same or look hard for new lines--Czech (the ones that haven't been bred to Tom or Yoschy bloodlines), or some of the lesser known German working lines -- maybe Vox vd Kine (which still brings in Troll) or Sid vh Pixner (brings in Mink) or a dog like Ike v Donauvorstadt (who still goes back to Mink) who brings in some major non-Fero bloodlines as well as old herding bloodlines.

Or you find a counterbalancing dog with similar bloodlines--which can be hard to do and may not work. Or you breed back to a similar dog from similar bloodlines and get some great dogs, some odd ones, some outliers.

It weird, the more pedigrees you study, the more you realize how little diversity there is within a breed (by definition--that's what a dog breed is)--particularly within the subpools within the breed.

I really like the female's pedigree, but she's heavily back-massed on Grief, who was known for his sharpness:

I'd probably look to take her back to a dog who carries Chicco vd Fasanerie or another dog who goes back to Ilja or maybe some Maneiche bloodlines--watching the amount of Greif behind the stud dog.



She's also only got one line back to Fero, so that opens up a lot of the Fero bloodlines--but I'd prefer to avoid going back to any more Yoschy/Troll, and I'd avoid Troll Koerbelbach and no more Verwin to increase diversity and avoid quadrupling up on those traits she's already really strong in.
 
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