Showline/Workingline crosses?

[Liesje]

Personally I wouldn't buy ANY dog from someone I felt was "just some random breeder." I would not be any more likely to buy a straight up WL or straight up SL if I didn't think the puppy would be a fit.

Another thing to keep in mind is that breeders aren't really breeding to sell YOU a dog but many times they are breeding for themselves. Again look at what Robin is doing. She has talked about her intentions before and has thought through several generations of her breedings. She is not the only one doing this. I know breeders who have to do a generation or two before they can get to the breeding they *really* have in mind. Whether or not you or anyone likes the pedigree or the puppies doesn't really matter because as surprising as it may be, for some people breeding isn't just about producing puppies for other people to buy.

[robinhuerta]

One must be willing to keep and breed from ONLY what is exceptional from the cross also.....if nothing is "worthy"...the buck stops there with that combination....no exceptions.
There should also be a "direction" to follow AFTER a cross breeding.....
Cross breeding's are not a "moments thought process"...as no breeding should ever be.
I don't think one should be *more careful* when breeding a "cross lineage" than a *non cross* breeding......I think one should be just as careful in both.
We have bred great dogs, good dogs but have also had some......well, ...lets just say....NOT what we had hoped for. We have produced most dogs with no health issues.....but we have also had a few "heart breakers", over the past years.....it still all comes down to genetics, nature and luck.

Without new genetics being introduced to help strengthen a program.....a program will eventually become the same dogs over and over again, generation and generations combined...(and not just 5,6,7 etc. generations back)...that will sooner or later...ONLY produce an abundance of health & mental inadequacies.

Again...this is just MY OPINION, and goals...it is not meant to "choose paths" for anyone else, or take away from anyone else's opinion.

@ Lies....Thanks! I'm glad you understand MY goals...even if they are not the most popular. LOL!

[Freestep]

Originally Posted by robinhuerta

I/we decided 3 years ago, to find a WL that we like, research the pedigree & see dogs from it.

If you don't mind, could you tell us what bloodline you chose, and why that particular line should "click" well with the bloodlines you have? This could be very educational.

Originally Posted by llombardo

She has the bitch stripe, which I believe is strictly a german line thing.

It's not strictly a German line thing. GSD bitches across the board can have the bitch stripe, European or American. It's common in black & tan saddlebacks, sometimes even males have it.

[Mrs.K]

Originally Posted by robinhuerta

Popular or not......I will be doing a "cross-breeding" of WL x SL.
I need to bring in new genetics into my SL breeding dogs....
I plan on keeping back a female from the breeding for myself.....so time will tell, if the combination was/is successful.

Robin, my parents used to have a couple of Show and Working line crosses as well. Asko vom Siegelgrund was one heck of a dog and had Showline in him.

Not all showline crosses are bad crosses. You KNOW what you are doing, so don't let the nay sayers get to you.

[martemchik]

I get that every breeder has a goal...and more than likely if all breeders thought that way we'd have a lot less problem dogs than we do right now. But...when you get a litter of 10 puppies you're not really keeping them all. And its great when you are dealing with people like Robin who care about their puppies and the families they sell them to, but what if you get a breeder that is testing something out and then just places their dogs in families (using their good reputation) and the dogs really don't work out or have issues but the breeder doesn't care?

It's kind of like...what if the breeding doesn't go the way it was expected from the pedigree and then there are 10 crazy pups out there...do you think this risk is higher with a cross than a non-cross? From what I've seen the risks are higher when you're dealing with breeders that aren't as knowledgeable as the ones we know, or the ones we would purchase from, but still breeders that I would consider reputable and successful.

[Liesje]

What if....I mean we could sit here all day and make up what ifs. I don't know the answer to your questions and I don't think anyone does. Either you trust your breeder and are willing to work with them or not. If not then move on to someone else and don't worry about what other people are doing.

Do I think the risk is higher? Personally, no, because not many people are even trying crosses and I see plenty of nutjob dogs that are pure this line or that line already.

[martemchik]

Originally Posted by Liesje

Do I think the risk is higher? Personally, no, because not many people are even trying crosses and I see plenty of nutjob dogs that are pure this line or that line already.

Lol that's what I'm trying to see...people with more experience and actual breeders that have thought about these things. Thanks for your answer!

And yeah, I wouldn't do it myself, or probably purchase from a breeder that does it, but that's my decision and like we always say...support who you want with your money.

[Mrs.K]

Originally Posted by martemchik

Lol that's what I'm trying to see...people with more experience and actual breeders that have thought about these things. Thanks for your answer!

And yeah, I wouldn't do it myself, or probably purchase from a breeder that does it, but that's my decision and like we always say...support who you want with your money.

Every litter is a test because you never, never, never know what you'll get. Yeah, the papers say you should be getting this or that, but we are dealing and gambling with the Nature and as much as the papers say one thing, the living creature in front of you may say something completely different.

So what do you do with dogs who didn't pan out the way you expected to?
If the breeders pts a litter, can you imagine the outcry?
If they place them with families, they are irresponsible as well.

Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

[Discoetheque]

As unpopular as my view might be, I've said it multiple times before and will say it again: I would love to see thoughtfully-bred working-show crosses out in the world. I would love to see our breed become just that: a breed, and not a battleground of lines anymore. If the show lines can work, and the working lines can compete successfully in conformation, and it's about the preservation of our breed, then what other reason is there not to do it? Why should a good working highline or a VA rated working line be an anomaly that high praises should be sung to?

[Liesje]

I don't really "get" most of them either, but I can't sit here and say that anecdotally I've seen more nutty crosses than pure WL or SL because that hasn't been true, so I'll give breeders the benefit of the doubt that just because they aren't on this forum explaining themselves doesn't mean they don't have a carefully considered goal in mind.