Showline/Workingline crosses? - Page 15 - German Shepherd Dog Forums

Increase font size: 0, 10, 25, 50%

GermanShepherds.com is the premier German Shepherd Forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see the above ads.
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 11-08-2012, 10:04 AM   #141 (permalink)
Knighted Member
 
Vandal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Saugus, CA
Posts: 2,176
Default

I don't think softness is coming from the show side in particular. I have seen soft dogs from all lines. I have also seen and trained show line dogs who were simply TOO "hard". Where normal corrections had no impact. Many wanted to use the term "stubborn" to describe them. I don't like that term and always look for other reasons for behavior. People are stubborn, dogs are not, they have other reasons for not complying. These dogs required a harder correction to get thru to them but when it did, they would almost shut down. Weird combination that caused me to dread training dogs from show lines when people asked me to. It was a case where people could not pay me to do it , even though I am a professional dog trainer. I am not kidding, that is how unpleasant those dogs were to train.

I also saw this behavior coming thru some of the Bungalow dogs and when this was discussed on another list, there was a common dog pointed out, who is behind many show line dogs and found in the Bungalow dogs as well. Sam Weinerau. I have no idea if he is the source, I am always skeptical when one dog, ( one time in the pedigree), is blamed, but who knows. I just know that the behavior of those dogs is not something I thought of as desirable , at all, and that includes the working lines who were like this.


I think sometimes we may be seeing it in the show dogs who seem to almost crawl next to their handlers on the heeling before the "attack" out of the blind. Many want to blame the bad training or say the dogs were being abused in some way. I recognize it as something else...meaning, what I just talked about above.
__________________

Anne
www.adlerstein.com
Vandal is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 11-08-2012, 10:10 AM   #142 (permalink)
Crowned Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Illinois
Posts: 3,567
Default

The two WL females that I have chosen to cross with...have slightly different "handler" responses.
Izzy is *handler sensitive*.....sensitive not soft. She is slightly more biddable than her 1/2 sister. She can take any correction from the handler without falling apart....but she is ALSO quick to respond to the correction.

Noche is only *slightly/handler sensitive*. She is more apt to be corrected harder, and she has NO softness what so ever. She takes a little longer to respond to a correction...as the correction must be given stronger, when she is in drive.

BOTH females are extremely nice and balanced. Both females have very good, strong nerves and are sound.....the only differences are their "personal characters". Neither females have any sensitivities to environmental stimuli.
*One of my favorite things about them.....their on & off abilities.*
I cannot live with dogs that do not have that ability, and I have no desire to produce dogs that do not have that ability.
__________________
Huerta Hof German Shepherds
www.teamhuertahof.com
....where breeding is still considered an art....
robinhuerta is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-08-2012, 10:10 AM   #143 (permalink)
Banned
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Jeff. County, NY
Posts: 9,001
Default

Quote:
I think sometimes we may be seeing it in the show dogs who seem to almost crawl next to their handlers on the heeling before the "attack" out of the blind. Many want to blame the bad training or say the dogs were being abused in some way. I recognize it as something else...meaning, what I just talked about above.
I've never seen that crawling as abuse or bad training. It's more like a stalking thing. If we are talking about the same thing.
Mrs.K is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-08-2012, 10:14 AM   #144 (permalink)
Crowned Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Illinois
Posts: 3,567
Default

Anne....Do you know how many WL dogs I watched "slink" down the field at the Schutzhund Nationals (about 4 years ago/when my husband was one of the helpers for the event)......almost "all" of them.
That "pose" is not just a SL dog thing......I see it all the time at most clubs we visit.

Creeping, crawling or stalking......one must "know" the dog & training, before an absolute judgement call is made...JMO
__________________
Huerta Hof German Shepherds
www.teamhuertahof.com
....where breeding is still considered an art....
robinhuerta is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-08-2012, 10:21 AM   #145 (permalink)
Knighted Member
 
Vandal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Saugus, CA
Posts: 2,176
Default

Robin,
Since you can only seem to pick out what I say about show lines, even though I talk just as much about working line dogs, perhaps you should just ignore my posts. No "absolute judgement" was made my me but you continue to take it all just a little too personal.
__________________

Anne
www.adlerstein.com
Vandal is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-08-2012, 10:31 AM   #146 (permalink)
Moderator
 
Liesje's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Grand Rapids, MI
Posts: 18,693
Default

enlighten me
"Crawling"
__________________
Coke (All-American 7/7/06)
Nikon (GSD 9/7/08)
Indy (All-American 5/10/12)
Legend (GSD 10/22/13)
Rainbow Bridge Kenya (GSD)

Liesje is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-08-2012, 10:31 AM   #147 (permalink)
Crowned Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Illinois
Posts: 3,567
Default

You took my post "personal"....not the other way around.
I simply made a statement that I have watched/seen that "pose" at National events too, that primarily consisted of WL dogs.
I wasn't dissagreeing or agreeing....simply giving an observation and comment.

I was simply "adding" to the thread.......my mistake.

*THIS is why I almost never respond to these types of threads.....carry on...I'm done.*
BTW...since I have both lineages...I don't find one better than the other...I think there is good and crap in both.
__________________
Huerta Hof German Shepherds
www.teamhuertahof.com
....where breeding is still considered an art....
robinhuerta is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-08-2012, 10:34 AM   #148 (permalink)
Crowned Member
 
martemchik's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 4,335
Default

Robin! Before you go!

Is there any reason in particular you chose to bring in female WL rather than a male WL to breed to one of your females? So like...would a male from that litter brought the same to your lines or would it have been different and that's why you went with a female?
martemchik is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-08-2012, 10:35 AM   #149 (permalink)
Crowned Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: ontario -
Posts: 8,990
Default

that softness can also be seen in the dog who is afraid to make a mistake - I have seen it hundreds of times both while competing in obedience and later while apprenticing in sanction matches as a potential judge (also as ring stewart). People can gain a lot by hanging around and watching others train and compete , don't just do your event and then head for the car . I saw many dogs almost tip toe on their nails , be tentative . When the handler said a firm SIT the dog the dogs head would sink in between the shoulders and the dog would look away , nose flick. The dog was okay dokey when it was all chirpy baby talk though . Oddly the kennel , which happens to be high rated american show states temperament is a priority.

In order to be a good working dog , or a good dog , working, the dog must be RESILIENT
bounce back , be forgiving --
carmspack is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-09-2012, 08:07 AM   #150 (permalink)
Crowned Member
 
cliffson1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 4,346
Default

Working/show crosses are tricky!
cliffson1 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the German Shepherd Dog Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:31 PM.



Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
SEO by vBSEO 3.3.2
PetGuide.com
Basset.net DobermanTalk.com GoldenRetrieverForum.com OurBeagleWorld.com
BoxerForums.com DogForums.com GoPitbull.com PoodleForum.com
BulldogBreeds.com FishForums.com HavaneseForum.com SpoiledMaltese.com
CatForum.com GermanShepherds.com Labradoodle-dogs.net YorkieForum.com
Chihuahua-People.com RetrieverBreeds.com