Working WGSL?

[Espo4442]

Hi guys, I recently visited Eichenluft -Molly Graf's facility to see some of her pups. First off she runs a very upstanding business and is very dedicated to preserving the helping the breed. One thing she mentioned is that her recent show line breeding of V Ambra vom Lastal (Ambra vom Lastal) and Axel Van vom Windy Ridge ( Axel Van com Windy Ridge) was a very capable litter of show lines. My question is, is it possible to have a high drive/able show line?

[qbchottu]

Yes!

[TrickyShepherd]

Yes. It is possible.

And we have a few of her working line dogs in our training group. They are fantastic. I know many who highly recommend her and say that she's easy to work with and always there for you and the dog.

I've only spoken to her on FB, so I can't really say anything on my own experience except for how well those dogs work.

[Espo4442]

Yes she is very dedicated to her dogs and finding them a good home. I'm just a little unsure whether or not I want a Showline dog that is capable of working or a working line. I'm very partial to light colored sables myself.

[Liesje]

Let me start by saying so far my favorite GSD I've owned is my WGSL so I have no bias against them. They are my preferred color and type. The issue with WGSL is not drive but *nerve*. Many of them have decent drive for doing SchH and are easy to train for any number of other dog sports. However what I see a lot is that they plateau as they mature and I think this is because many if not most are lacking a solid nerve base to back up the drive. When they are young they show a lot of promise as happy willing workers, good full bites and lots of prey drive, even the defense drive is there but then as the work gets more real and they face more challenges you start to see the nerve issues surface. I know I'm speaking in generalizations but again, I'm not trying to belittle *all* WGSL dogs since that is what I'm owning and training right now and will probably never be without one but I'm just telling you what I have seen over and over again. Make sure to understand all the nuances of temperament and that it's not just drive that matters, in fact I am one that doesn't like training a dog with excess drive but the dog has to have solid nerve and courage and be ready to bring active, forward aggression to the fight. I don't like watching WGSL dogs trained in all prey and trained to obtain SchH/IPO titles with minimal or no conflict. It's embarrassing for me to watch.

[Espo4442]

Originally Posted by Liesje

Let me start by saying so far my favorite GSD I've owned is my WGSL so I have no bias against them. They are my preferred color and type. The issue with WGSL is not drive but *nerve*. Many of them have decent drive for doing SchH and are easy to train for any number of other dog sports. However what I see a lot is that they plateau as they mature and I think this is because many if not most are lacking a solid nerve base to back up the drive. When they are young they show a lot of promise as happy willing workers, good full bites and lots of prey drive, even the defense drive is there but then as the work gets more real and they face more challenges you start to see the nerve issues surface. I know I'm speaking in generalizations but again, I'm not trying to belittle *all* WGSL dogs since that is what I'm owning and training right now and will probably never be without one but I'm just telling you what I have seen over and over again. Make sure to understand all the nuances of temperament and that it's not just drive that matters, in fact I am one that doesn't like training a dog with excess drive but the dog has to have solid nerve and courage and be ready to bring active, forward aggression to the fight. I don't like watching WGSL dogs trained in all prey and trained to obtain SchH/IPO titles with minimal or no conflict. It's embarrassing for me to watch.

I agree fully. I would much rather have a dog that is willing to protect himself and his handler with forward "never back down" aggression that a german shepherd should posses should the dog be challenged over prey drive any day.

[Castlemaid]

I have no personal experience with Showlines, but what Liesje is saying about her experience is exactly what an international level SchH/IPO trainer/competitor has told me. When still young, they show good potential, lots of drive, happy to work, tons and tons of promise, but once they mature and the stick hits get real, and the psychological pressure gets real, they lack the nerve to work through it.

[lhczth]

Talking to people who actually work them and compete with them what they have found it they often lack the hardness and drive needed for the flashy OB even when they have the rest. It is possible, but you need to make sure you find the right dog and have the right people to train with.

The sad things is that even the people I know who have competed with the show lines and done very well, are moving to working lines.

[Packen]

Originally Posted by Espo4442

My question is, is it possible to have a high drive/able show line?

It's about as tough as winning the lotto. In short , exceptions happen but once in a Blue Moon.