My dogs Pedigree- what does this mean? - Page 2

jaggirl47 · 11-04-2012, 10:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Freestep

Are you sure about that? The breeder was planning to breed this bitch to her own father? Because that's what this pedigree is saying.

Yeah, questionable isn't it?

Capone22 · 11-05-2012, 08:48 AM

Well I didn't know it was her sire at the time. But yes, that's what I was told. Im almost positive Gordon is their only stud at this time.

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FlyAway · 11-05-2012, 10:10 AM

I have heard of breeders doing this to lock in a specific trait. I don't know if that's the reason this breeder is doing it.

Capone22 · 11-05-2012, 10:17 AM

Yah maybe? Gordon is pretty great.

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qbchottu · 11-05-2012, 10:27 AM

Minimum allowed by SV is a 2-3. If planned, there is no reason to be doing 1-2 in this day and age.

Capone22 · 11-05-2012, 11:33 AM

What does minimum allowed in sv mean? Sorry new to all of this.

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wildo · 11-05-2012, 11:38 AM

The SV is the original German registration organization for the GSD. It's all quite confusing, but just suffice it to say that the SV in Germany (and it might be fair to say in all of Europe) is basically like the AKC is America. The SV does have more stringent registration requirements than any organization in America. I started a thread a while back in trying to understand all the registration bodies, I'll try to dig it up.

Here you go. See if you can make sense of all this! German Shepherd Organizations for the newbie (SV/WUSV/USCA)

qbchottu · 11-05-2012, 11:51 AM

Means the closest breeding you can do and still register the litter to the SV is a 2-3. Uncle to niece or grandparent to grandprogeny for example. That is as close as I would go. Even then, I would have reservations. The GSD has enough problems without us doing inbreedings so close.

jaggirl47 · 11-05-2012, 11:53 AM

What type of negatives can be brought up by breeding so close, ie the 1-2 breeding on Gordon Capone's pup has?

qbchottu · 11-05-2012, 12:00 PM

Closer the inbreeding, more the recessives are brought out. This can be good or bad. Good if the good traits are fixed. Bad because this breed is already bottlenecked and working on a restricted gene pool. There are some breeds out there that seem to rely heavily on linebreeding/inbreeding (the bully breeds immediately come to mind). But the GSD should not be inbred. We have enough problems. We also have enough dogs with the same pedigree and fixed traits such that we do not need to inbreed. We should be looking to inject new genes and lesser known pedigrees into our lines, not massing more of the same. Inbreeding on GSDs will result in more negative than positive in the majority of cases. I am waiting for the naysayers to come out of the woodwork with their outlier examples. A couple of positive extremes is not sufficient to convince me otherwise.

Good read:
http://www.fci.be/uploaded_files/29-2010-annex-en.pdf
"To preserve, or preferably extend, the genetic diversity of the breed, matador breeding and heavy inbreeding should be avoided. Mating between siblings, mother to son or father to daughter should never be performed. As a general recommendation no dog should have more offspring than equivalent to 5% of the number of puppies registered in the breed population during a five-year period. The size of the breed population should be looked upon not only on national but also on international level, especially in breeds with few individuals."

Amen!^^^

I will say this:
If you plan to inbreed (mother to son, siblings to each other, father to daughter), that's fine. But you will also need to keep your puppies, watch them carefully and cull ruthlessly. If you can do that, go ahead and inbreed. If you cannot or will not, you have no business inbreeding.

11-05-2012, 10:10 AM	#13 (permalink)
FlyAway Master Member Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: The Cold Midwest Posts: 569	I have heard of breeders doing this to lock in a specific trait. I don't know if that's the reason this breeder is doing it. __________________ "And why do we fall, Bruce? So we can learn to pick ourselves up."

11-05-2012, 11:38 AM	#17 (permalink)
wildo Crowned Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Indiana Posts: 5,119	The SV is the original German registration organization for the GSD. It's all quite confusing, but just suffice it to say that the SV in Germany (and it might be fair to say in all of Europe) is basically like the AKC is America. The SV does have more stringent registration requirements than any organization in America. I started a thread a while back in trying to understand all the registration bodies, I'll try to dig it up. Here you go. See if you can make sense of all this! German Shepherd Organizations for the newbie (SV/WUSV/USCA) __________________ Willy Pimg - DOB: 2/06, CL3, CL2, CL1, UJJ, HIT, CGC High Jinks vom Neuanfang - DOB 9/12 (Gotchya Day: 1/23/2013) agility superstar in training Last edited by wildo; 11-05-2012 at 11:44 AM.

11-05-2012, 11:53 AM	#19 (permalink)
jaggirl47 Knighted Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Washington Posts: 3,491	What type of negatives can be brought up by breeding so close, ie the 1-2 breeding on Gordon Capone's pup has? __________________ SBD Posejpal's Leyna, HCTs 6/16/2010 SBD Posejpal's Hades, 5/9/12 At the rainbow bridge: Zappa 12/27/00-1/23/12 You are my heart, my soul, and my best friend. You will be with me always. Zeus 5/9/12-8/13/12 You taught me strength. Run free.

11-05-2012, 08:48 AM	#12 (permalink)
Capone22 Master Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Southern California Posts: 932	Well I didn't know it was her sire at the time. But yes, that's what I was told. Im almost positive Gordon is their only stud at this time. Sent from my iPhone using PG Free

11-05-2012, 10:17 AM	#14 (permalink)
Capone22 Master Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Southern California Posts: 932	Yah maybe? Gordon is pretty great. Sent from my iPhone using PG Free

11-05-2012, 10:27 AM	#15 (permalink)
qbchottu Knighted Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 2,714	Minimum allowed by SV is a 2-3. If planned, there is no reason to be doing 1-2 in this day and age.

11-05-2012, 11:33 AM	#16 (permalink)
Capone22 Master Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Southern California Posts: 932	What does minimum allowed in sv mean? Sorry new to all of this. Sent from my iPhone using PG Free

11-05-2012, 11:51 AM	#18 (permalink)
qbchottu Knighted Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 2,714	Means the closest breeding you can do and still register the litter to the SV is a 2-3. Uncle to niece or grandparent to grandprogeny for example. That is as close as I would go. Even then, I would have reservations. The GSD has enough problems without us doing inbreedings so close.

11-05-2012, 12:00 PM	#20 (permalink)
qbchottu Knighted Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 2,714	Closer the inbreeding, more the recessives are brought out. This can be good or bad. Good if the good traits are fixed. Bad because this breed is already bottlenecked and working on a restricted gene pool. There are some breeds out there that seem to rely heavily on linebreeding/inbreeding (the bully breeds immediately come to mind). But the GSD should not be inbred. We have enough problems. We also have enough dogs with the same pedigree and fixed traits such that we do not need to inbreed. We should be looking to inject new genes and lesser known pedigrees into our lines, not massing more of the same. Inbreeding on GSDs will result in more negative than positive in the majority of cases. I am waiting for the naysayers to come out of the woodwork with their outlier examples. A couple of positive extremes is not sufficient to convince me otherwise. Good read: http://www.fci.be/uploaded_files/29-2010-annex-en.pdf "To preserve, or preferably extend, the genetic diversity of the breed, matador breeding and heavy inbreeding should be avoided. Mating between siblings, mother to son or father to daughter should never be performed. As a general recommendation no dog should have more offspring than equivalent to 5% of the number of puppies registered in the breed population during a five-year period. The size of the breed population should be looked upon not only on national but also on international level, especially in breeds with few individuals." Amen!^^^ I will say this: If you plan to inbreed (mother to son, siblings to each other, father to daughter), that's fine. But you will also need to keep your puppies, watch them carefully and cull ruthlessly. If you can do that, go ahead and inbreed. If you cannot or will not, you have no business inbreeding.

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