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Old 10-04-2012, 02:28 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Default genetics of herding

this thread started by ms Blackthorn asking " Would love to know of any dogs carrying Tarbes.

You seem to most often get Bert v Haus Knufken from Arthus who was 5-3 on Bert. And Arthus is definitely a significant force in today's working lines -- you have quite a few big names going back to him -- "

The answer is I do . Carmspack Joker Carmspack Joker - German Shepherd Dog -- note that Joker's dam Binga also has Bert Haus Knufken through her sire Urban Hopfenstrasse .
Joker was a breeze to train. We were building our horse paddocks at the time , digging post holes that kept filling up with water - days and days of rain . So , to keep my young son Jared occupied I had him "train" Joker on the sidelines to keep him in view and busy , the boy, not the dog . My son was around 10 years or so and he trained the dog with nothing more than a shoe lace from a hockey skate .
so to follow pedigree building conserving herding genetics I bred this Joker to Carmspack Ivana Carmspack Ivana - German Shepherd Dog
The Kilo side of the pedigree brings in Pirol Kirschental through Racker , goes back to Claudius Hain and Centa Busecker Schloss through Zita , Illo and Centa Mummelsee, and Sybille and Knolle v d Hain . On the dam's side we bring in Bert Knufken again Pirol again through Peggy Korbelbach , and Centa Busecker Schloss and Marko Cellerland through Askia Froschgraben, and the good resource coming from Uwe Kirschental's dam
Fenga .
Next generation I select Vyck Antverpa Jaymars Power of Carmspack - German Shepherd Dog Vyck brings in herding again through Ora Karthago going back to the herding Busecker Schloss lines and through Sam Bensch and especially Gibsy alten Wassermuhle's Pushka Haus Himpel going to Norbert von Fasanental .
next generation - Carmspack Case and Rachel mothers and grand dams to several service dogs including bomb (Silva) -- herding once again through Busecker Schloss Carmspack Case - German Shepherd Dog
next generation Carmspack Claudia - German Shepherd Dog (Claudia , Silva , Mon Ami , Bella etc) ] Silva - cert bomb dog, Mon Ami dam of 2 SWAT dogs, Bella cert narc dog. ) Bringing in Winni Geiersnest who carries Bert haus Knufken, the Pushka Haus Himpel lines , Enno Beilstein, Uran Kirschental ,

next generation -- already have plans - of course bringing in herding lines

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Old 10-04-2012, 02:41 AM   #2 (permalink)
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This female has a lot of herding titles--

HTCH, SG Gidget Tjuya vom Adelhertz - CGC, THD (TDI), BH, STDds OTDs
HXAMS HSAD HIBS HXC HRD3 HTD3 HTAD3 RLF3 F-RLFX3
HTCH, SG Gidget Tjuya vom Adelhertz - CGC, THD (TDI), BH, STDds OTDs - German Shepherd Dog

She was recently bred to another herding dog--closely related, actually:

Hikita Vom Insel
HRDIS/GE,HTDIS,RLFIIIS,HIASD,HXCS,AD,CGC
http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/germ...html?id=632941
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Old 10-04-2012, 02:44 AM   #3 (permalink)
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I'm confused, a bit, Carmen--is Joker still alive/breeding? Are you breeding Claudia to Joker? Oh, I see--Claudia is your female going back to Joker along the female line.

(It's late, I should go to bed!)
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Old 10-04-2012, 03:42 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Lord Gleisdreieck , Hetty Schwedenschanzen http://www.vonlordfandor.de/hetty.html
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Old 10-04-2012, 06:55 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Carmen - I'd love to hear your take on Kessy's pedigree one of these days

For those that are not familiar with her - she is an HGH dog that has proven to be an outstanding tending dog...she's been tested in every situation and has always excelled. I could lay down in the graze for a nap for 3 hours and I know she would keep the sheep where they need to be. She's moved the flock across a busy highway and was more than willing to take on a 250 lb ram when he decided to challenge her. It just kills me that I wasn't able to get any puppies out of her

Kira, my younger girl (co-owned with Lee), has also shown great instincts from a young age. She hasn't been truly tested yet, or put into challenging situations (due to her age), but so far, as Geary said, you'd think she comes from pure unbroken herding lines - she has so much instinct. Her dam and granddam also showed great herding instincts.

Kira is a cocky little thing, she has been from a very young age, I don't think much will be able to phase her!!!
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Kira von Wolfstraum HGH
PAM ARCH SG Kessy vom Waldwinkel 2xHGH Schh1 OB2 RL1X RL3 RN TT AD
Djenga von Castra Regina RL2 BH HIC TT
Madina vom Arolser Holz BH AD CGC
The JRT's: ARCHX Gizmo TT RL1X RL2X RL3 & Cricket RL2

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Old 10-04-2012, 07:48 AM   #6 (permalink)
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This was one of my early attractions to the first DDR dogs that were made available to the outside world. There was a wealth of herding blood that was being made available. Dogs like Held v Ritterberd, Lord v Gleisdreick, Ingo v Rudigan, ex v Reidstern, Ali Granert, were all sires that had rich resources that go back to herding dogs from the past.
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Old 10-04-2012, 08:24 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Some of the American lines seem to do well in herding. Every dog that I have taken to be tested (12-15) have shown instinct, but they also showed differing levels of drive.
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Old 10-04-2012, 09:59 AM   #8 (permalink)
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I have to applaud you Andaka for taking your dogs out there to see what they have to offer. You could add some German lines as was done in the pedigree of Linda Shaw's "Timmy" , good solid "canadian/american show line to west German/DDR strong herding heritage Kilo. Shawlein Fine Art & Purebred German Shepherd Dogs . Genetically though the herding is hard to find -- and yet Covy Tucker Hills Angelique did have a line to Gauss Stauderpark (Valet Busecker Schloss) . Predominantly breeding selection was on Hein Richterbach.
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Old 10-04-2012, 10:00 AM   #9 (permalink)
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adding Vito Waldwinkel (if I have not already included hime) V Vito vom Waldwinkel - German Shepherd Dog
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Old 10-04-2012, 10:10 AM   #10 (permalink)
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My yougest dog does incorporate some DDR in him.

Deestraum-Andaka's Jagged Edge - German Shepherd Dog

But I haven't taken the time to try him on sheep yet.
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