genetics of herding

[carmspack]

I see that -- keep adding dogs with Bernd Lierberg and in particular Puska Haus Himpel.
You have to know the DDR lines because if you don't and just select "ddr" you can get what you don't want and that is sharp dogs - there has to be an anchor for stability .

[carmspack]

just have to repeat this thread - so much excellent information contained in it HGH training...progress, videos, from the start

phgsd can you check your PMs from me because I did spend the time and did provide you with a complete breakdown of Kessy's herding heritage -- which is A LOT ! and from different old herding lines being brought together - which is better than just repeating on one . Brings in the nuances and personal touches of different herding breeders . I had a field day going through her background ! You are lucky to have Kessy and Kira . Both look like they could be nicely at home in my own back yard.
If you can't find it I will redo it but when I have the time to concentrate .

[BlackthornGSD]

Originally Posted by phgsd

Carmen - I'd love to hear your take on Kessy's pedigree one of these days

For those that are not familiar with her - she is an HGH dog that has proven to be an outstanding tending dog...she's been tested in every situation and has always excelled. I could lay down in the graze for a nap for 3 hours and I know she would keep the sheep where they need to be. She's moved the flock across a busy highway and was more than willing to take on a 250 lb ram when he decided to challenge her. It just kills me that I wasn't able to get any puppies out of her

Kessy did influence my decision to breed Jubilee to a Vox son.

Blackthorn's Riddle - German Shepherd Dog

[carmspack]

ms Blackthorn I hope you don't mind my using a reply to someone else back in 2002 -

"
The litter I had from Tarbes was Tarbes (obviously) and Binga Kuhnhof who was from Urban Hopfenstrasse,
and Xira Kuhnhof which was Brix Laimbachtal to Dieda Kuhnhof a Gildo Korbelbach daughter.

I have a male from that litter which I have access to for stud. I have taken advantage of him twice, each
time taking him to females combining the Boris that Brix had, and on the other the Boris that Fero Zeuterner Himmelreich
had AND the Uwe Kirschental that the former bitch had through Asko Schloss Zweibruggen's Asko Joufne Keyleff,
and Uwe Kirschental through Andy Bildsaule on the second female.

The one litter produced a single male pup. He was sold to a schutzhund person who was offered $3,500 US at 4
months so of course he sold the dog.

The other litter produced a dog which is with a Canadian police dept and made the papers often . I have seen his
handler's dossier on the dog's career. In fact I recently placed another dog with the same dept.
Both litters were "street" oriented same as another person said that her Tarbes dogs tended to be.
If you look at the Red covered Dog Calendar put out by Brown Trout, photographed by Mark Raycroft, the cover
dog, the first sable to be used commercially you will see a Tarbes grandson. That dog is Argos , a son of my Kilo
and my Link who was a daughter of Tarbes and Binga. How does he work. Well he was with a club I belonged to
that did Ring. Unlike Schutzhund the decoy does not stand and catch the dog, he escapes it, which adds to the
challenge in the fight. This dog would rocket down the field eye the decoy who is moving out of the way, adjust to
the change in a split second, slid in on his left shoulder a good 4 feet and a the last moment pop up, and knock
the decoy off his feet like a bowling ball and pin. A repeat of this combination was made and one of the males,
Irie, went to a detention center where the law would send troubled youth for last chance rehabilitation. This was
in a very remote, wooded area. The dog
was class room deterent, did late night cabin patrol check up and was family guardian. One day while coming up
the long drive way , the dog leaps out of the window of a moving car since he has spied one of the "customers"
bothering the owners kids who were playing among the pine in the snow. The dog darted in got the offender and
then the young kids around 8 years of age could control the dog till dad got there.
Part of the purpose of Tarbes was as a representative of the U litter Kirschental. This was before the time of sperm
storage that we have available now. Joe was fierce in his understanding pedigrees and his logical application.
Tarbes was from the last breeding that Uran Kirschental had. I don't know where else there was a living member of that
dynasty in that year. The purpose was to conserve , as in a museum, bloodlines of past value so that they could
be refreshed. Tarbes also had Marko Cellerland twice. Once through Mark Abtei - Eck, and once through the great
and beautiful Kai Silberbrand.
That was the dogs purpose.

and another "
One of the reasons Joe liked Tarbes was because he contained himself. He had all this drive
and power yet was "quiet" or "calm". Joe had said he loved him because of his natural aggression,
his natural hardness. Nothing had to be done to bring it out. The dog was presented with a situation
and it emerged, correctly and with convinction , no fooling around or need for an education.
Carmen

[carmspack]

the burg Fasanental herding line that runs through several DDR (Pushka haus Himpel) also runs through the Frei vd Gugge in addition to serious herding contribution from Claudius Hain -- follow Cherusker von Burg Fasanental - German Shepherd Dog keep going back through the years to see this line.

here you see Edo http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/germ...g.html?id=2057 (Frei Gugge pedigree) and you can see Claudius von Hain - see the intensity of herding female stock through Knolle, then again through female Loni Maschtor - Burg Fasanental , then again through the female Kundry bringing in Blasienburg herding dogs.

[BlackthornGSD]

I just realized that Donn v Dreidorfereck, a dog who is in the 4th generation of my first workingline GSD, is another dog who brings forward Bert vh Knufken--and Frei, and Bernd.

5 geneneration pedigree for V Donn vom Dreidörfereck - German Shepherd Dog

You will still see him in working dog pedigrees, back a few generations--not as common a name as some others, though. My female goes to him through Xita v Entzal--daughter of an HGH female (Sara Kirschental x Sagus v Busecker Schloss):
Xita vom Enztal - German Shepherd Dog

So maybe that's a big source of the herding instinct that I've found. Although, the female I had (Frostbite) was too unclear in her drive and couldn't stop screaming while herding, so we didn't very far with it. Have done much better a few generations down--breeding for more clarity while not losing drive or intelligence or desire to work.