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Von Giliannes - Belgian breeder. spit some thoughts?

32K views 115 replies 20 participants last post by  tttop 
#1 ·
#2 ·
All my ddr dogs have had Lord in their peds it's what I look for.

I also had a Zorro grandson, and that dog was the best ever..I tend to stick with dogs that have those two in their backgrounds because I've liked what I got from them.
 
#5 ·
It is a real mish mash....lots of notable dogs in the 3rd through 6th gens.....sort of an odd combo of lines....some dogs I really like, and then some I am not sure why you would combine.....maybe the breeder is going on the dogs characters and drives and not thinking about pedigrees at all....many breeders are of that philosophy when choosing breeding pairs....

I also have Lord in my one female family....and like the looks, the tracking drives and the stability it brings....but not sure that Manto combined with the female is somewhere I would go.....

Lee
 
#6 ·
The brother to the mother(ortha) of glenn v haus valkenplatz was imported to sweden and has plenty of offspring here, one of his many offspring I saw last weekend in the GSD championship in IPO, higest protectionscore and will represent sweden in WUSV. His pedigree and performance on that trial, handsome male with pretty much DDR-dogs on his mothers side too,
GrĂĄmanns Rocco - German Shepherd Dog

 
#8 ·
I love that protection routine!!!! Yeah yeah I know his butt did not touch Thr ground on some sits....whatever! But his transports, clean calm, looking straight ahead ready to apprehend or ready to mrespond to a counter command from the owner. No hyperactive repeated forging. Nothing stylish but very very functional and real. I'm sure the Sch gods can nitpick the performance, but I saw a rock solid routine.
 
#31 ·
I love that protection routine!!!! Yeah yeah I know his butt did not touch Thr ground on some sits....whatever! But his transports, clean calm, looking straight ahead ready to apprehend or ready to mrespond to a counter command from the owner. No hyperactive repeated forging. Nothing stylish but very very functional and real. I'm sure the Sch gods can nitpick the performance, but I saw a rock solid routine.
Finally was able to get YouTube to download onto my phone. Very nice dog!!! This is the type of dog that smart breeders use.

Cliff, you need to get out more. ;) The SchH gods I train with would see the quality of this dog and appreciate the dog for who he is. Yes, just like you, they would see the places where points might be taken, but that is only a small part of the whole.
 
#9 ·
short answer -- I prefer this pedigree also. Beyond prefer - really really like !!

I like the female -- very strong pedigree , love seeing a GSD in KNPV with met lof !!! A strong female is such a good foundation for the next generation. In addition this male Iwan has another dog proven through KNPV on 'his' mothers pedigree , power through the females. When you see this thema you see there is a deliberate management of having and keeping the good and not seeking to compensate or bring something in . They have it.
Harro with his Racker , more herding , excellent source for tracking, more Bernd through Eros Busecker Schloss . Harro appears several times. You are keeping the power to work in check with biddability , ability to yield and work with and not just for , intelligence and good instincts.
Further along you have Gibsy Alten Wassermuhle , with some of my favourite animals Mira Iris, Hassan , holding resources to Bernd through haus Himpel which goes back to one of the better old herding foundation lines. Power/Control.
Gildo, Dreschler (under appreciated) , Zorro .
At the same time within this pedigree you have kept some old herding lines through Uwe Kirschental , and character and herding through Bernd Lierberg .
Even like Ary von Kleinen Taller in there bringing in herding . I had real good experience with him and he is in the background of some of my dogs. I have always liked his streamlined body V Ary vom kleinen Taller - German Shepherd Dog . That he was bred to a Bernd daughter Winny , who repeats on the same generation through the sire's family is a bonus. Always an eye on character and stability.

this is a really strong female, and with that more than half the battle has been won.

So is has been / will be bred to Glenn vom haus Valkenplatz who is not on the pedigree data base . To make it easier to follow , his sire , Mic v d Kine is and this is his pedigree Mic von der Kine - German Shepherd Dog. Love Manto Kahlenbach , love the potential when you combine strong tracking with old herding , which has been a theme throughout the females (Daizys) pedigree . Troll brings in the Liergergs - a click of a breeding , best of Fero . Enno Beilstein worthy of a study on his own. In this pedigree of Mic there is excellent use of Busecker Schloss . Ignaz through Mink . Seigo (Bernd source).
That was the sire of Glenn vom haus Valkenplatz.

Here is his mother's pedigree in the same format. Ortha vom Haus Valkenplatz - German Shepherd Dog - Aron known as a producer , brings Racker Itztal and Urs Hopfenstrasse, through this sire Aron Granit Rose.

Interesting again that the female side of the pedigree shows strength of character -- a female with a KNPV . Proof of the pudding - a female is as good as she produces -- and here is one of her sons , randomly chosen "Hassan" --wow--- Hassan Vom Haus Valkenplatz - German Shepherd Dog -- wow -- should be a new title . It was totally random - I saw the little image of a black dog which reminded me of my Hektor so opened up on him.
Then you go to investigate what the mothers littermates are and you have brother V Onix vom Haus Valkenplatz - German Shepherd Dog and SG Omar vom Haus Valkenplatz - German Shepherd Dog
Tess vom Haus Valkenplatz - German Shepherd Dog
This kennel that owns this female is making some really good breed combinations. Good on them.
Many resources to the herding here also , Perry Beilstein, Racker , Uran Kirschental , Bert v h Knufken , Bernd and Bodo Lierberg, Mutz and Marko, more Gildo (arek stoffelblick).

So you have the ingredients for rock solid , willfull dogs that should have mental endurance, high thresholds, not excitable nor reactive, active aggression, and if trained as a partner , not so much through bribes , but allowing natural talents to expose , then catch them and put them to use , you have a best chances for good dog here. I would not go kooky happy nuts to get out on the schutzhund field right away , young as possible . There are so many older type lines here , the older style , that do best when you live with the dog as a normal dog and show them the world - then with maturity you train . The good stuff just keeps on coming . Then if you train you have to go to a club that will bring the dog out in a non-prey-monkey way because this dog is going to be more real more working . A good decoy with a good read and prescence will bring the dog to its best .

So where are these pups -- seriously , who is the breeder.

Carmen
CARMSPACK.com
 
#12 ·
Trust me Carmen, I noticed ! The clearness and calmness, and power is typical of dogs you used to see. The kind of dog that is calculating the amount of power and intensity that is needed to handle situation with an ability to ratchet it up IF NECESSARY! Balance,balance,balance in all parts of the routine. The ability to handle the task and be completely tuned in to handler at same time. A pair!
No leakage of drives, reckless energy, unneeded mintensity. Just a real nice dog and routine to me.
 
#13 ·
Seriously- you guys amaze me! I wish I could watch and see what you see! Cliff- I may save that video to my phone, and if I ever see you again- I'm going to have you watch it with me and you can point out everything! :thumbup: :D
 
#15 ·
Cliff, the judge also liked the dog very much, near the ideal dog in his opinion. This dog also has a sister that is competing at the championship in the swedish protectionprogram this weekend, so this litter is probably the most sucessfull as far as sportperformance goes from omar v haus valkenplatz so far.

Found another video of his obedience and protectionwork in a big IPO-competition some months ago,
 
#19 ·
Cliff, the judge also liked the dog very much, near the ideal dog in his opinion. This dog also has a sister that is competing at the championship in the swedish protectionprogram this weekend, so this litter is probably the most sucessfull as far as sportperformance goes from omar v haus valkenplatz so far.

Found another video of his obedience and protectionwork in a big IPO-competition some months ago,
SCHĂ„FERSLAGET 2012 MED TEAM TĂ–LLSJĂ– - YouTube
:thumbup:
 
#20 ·
Arkangel can you now do a favour for me.
Years ago I was friends with a Swedish woman who went under the kennel name of Brigadens. She had a breeding to Greve Goliat "Zeb" who was police dog of the year 2000 for saving his handlers life when a stadium full of angry soccer hooligans went on rampage. His owner was unconscious and the crowd was ready to stomp on him, through chairs. This dog held every one away , fearless , until more help came. it´s a son of Jack Stiegler Hof who will be the father of the pups. Whio´s Greve Goliat ("Zeb") is his name.
You can look at Blekinge police departments homepage for some pictures of him.
clik.to
When on the homepage click on the blue button on the right : Ă…rets polishund 2000 Ther you can find some pictures of Zeb and some text on Swedish :)
Generally it says that he has incrediable drives, strong fight and that he never gives up.
He was awarded "policedog of year 2000" because he is a an absolute complete policedog with super tracking ability and work in crimescenes.
His pedigree is.


Fels v Kemmlerblick - Lex Aspenhaus
Dux v Zinnsteig
Elfe vd Jahnstadt - Durbas Haus Himpel
Jack v Stiegler Hof
Golf v Ritterberg - Eggo Ammerberg
Danka Schieferschloss
Käty v Bärenbrusch - Ilka´s Duran
Whios Greve Goliat

Odin v Andershofer Ufer - Frei Baruther Land
Silverpilens Nix
Silverpilens öja -Pilfalkens Qroy - Cito vd Sandhol - Aro Worringer Reitweg - Vello Sieben Faulen
Whio´s Chic Cherie Ina Hembachwald -Valet Busecker Schloss
Chax ******
Chax Jatruice
Cherie

Im really glad your dogs are doing great, and know how proud you must be.
Looked at Rkiv on his homepage, and he sure was a beautiful boy.
Very nice expression.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

so something happened which prevented her from sending the dog? that I forget -- I am thinking maybe they were longhair and she wanted to send the "BEST"

So the next dogs we were discussing was a military dog IDEX , which needed special permission form the government to approve a breeding .

The other consideration was One of the males I´m concidering to use is named Marhöjs Kubik, he took a 280 out of 300 score on the temperament test.
You know the average is about 170p for a male.
Or his litter brother Marhöjs Kastor, Military Police dog. Only offered to selected females.
They are 4,4-5 Odin v. Andershofer Ufer.
The combination will give 5,5,6-5,5,6 on Odin v. anderhofer Ufer.
Their mother is a litter sister to Likatorps Baxe that I was considering before.
The entire Marhöjs K - litter is A hips and clear elbows as is our W - litter.
I will let you know when we have a female in heat, and what male she will be bred to if you are interested Kastor.


this takes us back 10 - 11 years ago when there was still the shock and aftermath of 2001


what are your best working lines in Sweden ?

Carmen
CARMSPACK.com

Marhojs Kubik or his military brother
 
#24 ·
Arkangel can you now do a favour for me.
Years ago I was friends with a Swedish woman who went under the kennel name of Brigadens. She had a breeding to Greve Goliat "Zeb" who was police dog of the year 2000 for saving his handlers life when a stadium full of angry soccer hooligans went on rampage. His owner was unconscious and the crowd was ready to stomp on him, through chairs. This dog held every one away , fearless , until more help came. it´s a son of Jack Stiegler Hof who will be the father of the pups. Whio´s Greve Goliat ("Zeb") is his name.
You can look at Blekinge police departments homepage for some pictures of him.
clik.to
When on the homepage click on the blue button on the right : Ă…rets polishund 2000 Ther you can find some pictures of Zeb and some text on Swedish :)
Generally it says that he has incrediable drives, strong fight and that he never gives up.
He was awarded "policedog of year 2000" because he is a an absolute complete policedog with super tracking ability and work in crimescenes.
His pedigree is.


Fels v Kemmlerblick - Lex Aspenhaus
Dux v Zinnsteig
Elfe vd Jahnstadt - Durbas Haus Himpel
Jack v Stiegler Hof
Golf v Ritterberg - Eggo Ammerberg
Danka Schieferschloss
Käty v Bärenbrusch - Ilka´s Duran
Whios Greve Goliat

Odin v Andershofer Ufer - Frei Baruther Land
Silverpilens Nix
Silverpilens öja -Pilfalkens Qroy - Cito vd Sandhol - Aro Worringer Reitweg - Vello Sieben Faulen
Whio´s Chic Cherie Ina Hembachwald -Valet Busecker Schloss
Chax ******
Chax Jatruice
Cherie

Im really glad your dogs are doing great, and know how proud you must be.
Looked at Rkiv on his homepage, and he sure was a beautiful boy.
Very nice expression.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

so something happened which prevented her from sending the dog? that I forget -- I am thinking maybe they were longhair and she wanted to send the "BEST"

So the next dogs we were discussing was a military dog IDEX , which needed special permission form the government to approve a breeding .

The other consideration was One of the males I´m concidering to use is named Marhöjs Kubik, he took a 280 out of 300 score on the temperament test.
You know the average is about 170p for a male.
Or his litter brother Marhöjs Kastor, Military Police dog. Only offered to selected females.
They are 4,4-5 Odin v. Andershofer Ufer.
The combination will give 5,5,6-5,5,6 on Odin v. anderhofer Ufer.
Their mother is a litter sister to Likatorps Baxe that I was considering before.
The entire Marhöjs K - litter is A hips and clear elbows as is our W - litter.
I will let you know when we have a female in heat, and what male she will be bred to if you are interested Kastor.


this takes us back 10 - 11 years ago when there was still the shock and aftermath of 2001


what are your best working lines in Sweden ?

Carmen
CARMSPACK.com

Marhojs Kubik or his military brother
Hello,

I surely want to do a favor for you. But I'm unsure what you are requesting for...
could you put it on email or private msg?
 
#25 · (Edited)
the request was just to say something of those lines to add to the information bank on foreign dogs that are more obscure , yet very valuable , and should be used

we only hear of the dogs coming from the sch h sport field , yet there are so many others not as advertised or promoted , whether real herding or police or any real work that have so much to offer and may be the balancing that will be needed at some point

we need to see it to get a full picture of the breed


so is teven meaning male or female?
 
#26 ·
Carmspack, I suppose your question was directed to me because I´m from sweden. Yes, whios greve goliat was used quite a lot in his days, as was his father jack v stieglerhof, quite common in the swedish workinglines. I guess it´s hard to say what lines are best, depending on the use I suppose, many different lines also. But as a generalization dogs with much swedish blood for many generations are seldom so hyper and preydriven like some of todays SCH-lines of dogs, breed for different sports and purposes. More the stable type like the dog I posted videos of.

I´m not 100% sure, but I think Idex you spoke of is the policedog you can see in this pedigree, a dog with both greve goliat and Idex, and besides jack stieglerhof there is another german import, arry v schloss zweibruggen, arry and jack is probably the most used importdogs from the 80s you see in the swedish lines(dogs with mostly swedish breed dogs for many generations),
Bruksmarkens Hassel - German Shepherd Dog
 
#28 ·
@Bjorn.....the type dog you reference....steady, solid, working, not hyper or too prey driven, is the same type dog I have referenced on this forum for YEARS. Hard enough to work, safe enough for family, balanced and strong....you see less and less of these dogs in show ring or trial field. THAT'S why I have respect for the breeding philosophy there. Many people think that these dogs are myths, still others think they are no longer available, but they are out there, they just require a commitment to breeding for utility and not show/sport. Bravo for you guys....haven't got caught up in the hype!
 
#29 ·
steady, solid, working, not hyper or too prey driven, is the same type dog I have referenced on this forum for YEARS. Hard enough to work, safe enough for family, balanced and strong....you see less and less of these dogs in show ring or trial field. THAT'S why I have respect for the breeding philosophy there. Many people think that these dogs are myths, still others think they are no longer available, but they are out there, they just require a commitment to breeding for utility and not show/sport.

Cliff - they are here - rare true! But here.....the Bern/Held/Golf...coming down through House Himple dogs specifically....and they are not hyper, prey monsters..but balanced, strong and solid...hard in the work...and super for family...Interesting that Burga was a 2-2 on Bernd Lierburg! And she was reportedly one of the best producing females of her era...

6 geneneration pedigree for SG (1-US) Kyra vom Frolich Haus - German Shepherd Dog

The herding instinct is strong....Kyra, Csabre and now the opportunity to title in HGH with Kira....who is also more than capable of being dual titled in schutzhund....easy to train, ball drive, but real dogs, not prey monsters...

Lee
 
#32 · (Edited)
There are a couple of things that caught my eye about this dog. First, the guarding. He stands in front of the helper vs sitting. Some of the best dogs I have ever seen, work this way and each one of those dogs brought a level of seriousness to the work that was quite clear, just as it is here. I have owned dogs over the years and have some now, who do not want to sit in front of the helper. For me, that's simply ideal.

He flies after the helper on the escape and when the attacks come, he really brings it. He accelerates into the helper on the attack out of the back transport and the courage test you can see the power, even though he doesn't leave the ground 20 feet away from him, ( something so many finds desirable now). You can see the serious in this style as well but he is really very compliant. That leads me to my next SchH myth rebuke that hard, tough dogs are difficult to control. I have never known that to be the case, the serious dogs are much more willing to work with the handler IF they have the right genetics..

I actually think there are dogs like this still but not common, just like they were not that common years and years ago. We can pretend that all the dogs were just great back then but they were not. They were different, and overall better than many we see now in that protection was REALLY protection, but the great dogs were not "common". We saw less balance in the dogs then, just like now. However, it was different in that the dogs were all trained too much on the "defense" side of things and the control was not there. Now, we see the pendulum has swung all the way to the other side where there is perfect control, ( and ridiculous circus type obedience), but the power( and use of the protective instinct in the dogs), is simply not there. We watch the dogs now with suspicion because the training is hiding so much of what might be bad but in my opinion, can also be the good side of the dogs.
I think people have become so RIDICULOUS about being flashy and throwing in that kind of silly obedience in the middle of protection, it takes away from the performance. In this video, you can watch and actually see who the dog is, without being distracted, ( or disappointed in my case...lol...), because of the "side show" quality people insert into protection now. The handler throws in some flash but again, it is nothing that takes away from the dog himself.

One last thing about SchH...I have complained pretty loudly about what it is now. However, I think if you show up with a good dog, who is not flashy but shows correctly...just like in this video, you can get high points. This dog got a V, so, the idea that you can't score well without the flash, is simply not correct. There are judges out there who appreciate good dogs. They are not usually easy judges and are therefore not used much by SchH clubs but those are the more enjoyable judges to show under if you care about who your dog is and want that aspect emphasized.

As for Carmen's comments about Enno Beilstein...best GSD I have ever seen. It was said by many Germans it was a mistake he left Germany. If he had stayed, maybe people would be more excited about him but this was really one of the great dogs of all time, for so many reasons.
 
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