American blood lines VS. German lines

[asja]

Originally Posted by msvette2u

There's a sticky about how to find a good breeder.
A good breeder looks at the whole dog. As said in another thread, if you're going to discount an ASL dog because it "can't work" then we must also discount German working lines because they cannot look "pretty" in the ring.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I think my German working line dogs are beautiful. My beautiful girl has a lovely floating trot.

[Lucy Dog]

Kaz... again, isn't your dog a show line dog? He sure looks like one from his pictures. The "crippled frog legs" argument isn't an American specific thing, it's more of a show line thing.

Originally Posted by Kaz

Let me ask you again, if not the German Shepherd forum, then where else, do we raise consciousness of this issue?

The real world...

As emoore said in an earlier post, on here you're "preaching to the choir". Go back and read her post again. No ones arguing the basis of what you're trying to say.

[martemchik]

Originally Posted by Kaz

^
After reading these articles, if you are a new dog owner, do you feel confident that your dog has the courage and temperament to be close to your infant child?

Let me remind you of the post from an AMERICAN website:

"...Without the courage, stability and clear headedness to temper their actions. They are often fear-biters, nervous and stressed, showing inappropriate aggressive tendencies. They lack the courage for true protection work, their aggressive behavior being a result of defensiveness and fear for themselves and not an instinct to protect their master. This can be confusing to a novice, but the end result is very different; you cannot count on this type of dog to protect and defend you in a threatening situation. "

And its not an elitist thing to point out deficiencies. As people who love this breed, it is our responsibility to seek the truth, educate ourselves and try to seek correction of wrong practices.

No offense but you are taking all your knowledge off of articles on websites...go out and meet dogs. You yourself have only had a GSD pup for a few months and have no idea what you dog will become. You just expect, because you found a good breeder, that he will be balanced. You have no idea what might happen over the next few months.

Are you working your dog in protection? Do you think yours has the temperament for it? I don't have an ASL, I have a working line and I can tell you my dog has met a 10 day old baby and had no issue with it. He was extremely curious and had no issues. There are dozens of ASL dogs at my club that would have no problem meeting babies, they would actually be less curious and completely fine with new borns. I have SEEN their temperaments, I'm not just reading websites (and it doesn't matter from where).

Even your quote includes the word OFTEN in it. It is a word that is interestingly often overlooked and forgotten when it is used to try and prove a point. How often are these dogs the things that is stated? I have actually seen more working line dogs have temperament issues than the ASLs. And there are about 10 times more ASLs at our club than working line dogs.

Stop attacking a line of dogs just because of generalizations you read on a website.

[Lucy Dog]

Originally Posted by martemchik

No offense but you are taking all your knowledge off of articles on websites...go out and meet dogs.

Originally Posted by martemchik

Stop attacking a line of dogs just because of generalizations you read on a website.

And that pretty much sums up this thread.

[Samba]

I have American Showlines. I can not tell you where to go in these lines to find working drives, courage and fight drive intact genetically. If I were looking for these characteristics, I definitely would not look to these dogs in general.

I have some decent WL dogs too. Living with both for many years now I can tell you there is definitely a difference. Some American dogs I have been around had good nerves and decent drives, particularly herding. But if we are looking for a particular genetic cache, there are real differences. The general paths taken in the breeding of the lines have been divergent.

I have a pretty extreme female regards rear end. Good hips and freakishly agile! But, if I needed a dog to fight for me or work all day,no doubt my WL girl is my choice. It should be so, generations of breeding choices make it thus.

[Freestep]

Originally Posted by msvette2u

As said in another thread, if you're going to discount an ASL dog because it "can't work" then we must also discount German working lines because they cannot look "pretty" in the ring.

Personally, I do not take offense to that. I'll take an "ugly" dog with proper temperament over a pretty basket case all day long. And I'm not discounting ASL as a whole, a good dog is a good dog no matter where it came from.

There needs to be a balance--conformation, health, temperament, working ability. When a breeder focuses on one thing and disregards the others, there is imbalance. Personally I don't think looks should be the #1 priority in any breeding program, and it seems to me that some show ring fanciers in America focus more on sidegait than temperament. It's the same overseas, but at least there, the dogs must be titled in SchH, so that is at least a temperament test of sorts.

Again, there are exceptions and I'd love to be proven wrong--heck, I'd have no problem buying an ASL pup if the dog was right for me.

[msvette2u]

Quote:
Originally Posted by martemchik
Stop attacking a line of dogs just because of generalizations you read on a website.


And that pretty much sums up this thread.

Amen to that.

[PaddyD]

My ASL bitch. Not too roachy or froggy.

[Whiteshepherds]

Originally Posted by Kaz

And its not an elitist thing to point out deficiencies. As people who love this breed, it is our responsibility to seek the truth, educate ourselves and try to seek correction of wrong practices.

It's not elitist at all, but you can't do it by making assumptions and painting all dogs from any given line with the same broad brush.
Every breeder should be judged on their own merit and the dogs they produce. Nothing more, nothing less.

Maybe instead of banning politics, the forum should ban the use of words like ASL, WGSL, etc., working line and show line. People would have to talk about the actual dogs rather than the labels attached to which ever line they happen to be from.

[Good_Karma]

My ASL Niko just ran five miles through four inches of snow with me this morning, and can't wait to get outside this afternoon to run another two with my husband. Boy ,what a cripple!! What is this breed coming to???