ATTN: Showline enthusiast; some help please?

[elisabeth_00117]

I would really appreciate some help deciphering this breeding.

Temperament, nerve strength, thresholds, appearance, etc., etc.. I have a friend who is looking at this litter and she asked me what I think but I told her I am not familiar with the lines so I would ask here.

Much appreciated!

Birksire German Shepherds

[GSDElsa]

I'm not a SL person, but know that X-Box is a pretty popular stud here. YOu might contact Robin, I believe she recently used him for a litter. Or knows someone who did.

[qbchottu]

Xbox is a fantastic male. He's got great pigmentation, nice head and good type. I've seen his progeny work. The ones I saw had good strong full bites, correct structure and solid temperament. Xbox produces well and this year a Xbox son Xenox placed VA2 at NASS (should have been VA1 but I'm biased). I'm currently fostering a Xenox daughter and she has excellent drives/temperament. The dam's pedigree also looks good imo, but I'm not familiar with her background.

[qbchottu]

It also looks like a repeat breeding so they must have been happy with what they produced the first time around.

[Josie/Zeus]

Koda's sire is Xbox, but I have to say that Koda's big head and pigment came from his mother, Allie-V Vallie vom Haus Kirschental - German Shepherd Dog

Temperament wise, well- Koda is amazing.

[carmspack]

the web site is really scant on information on the breeders. I'm all for mentored newby's starting out . This means that in what ever venue they choose the rub shoulders with people in the know , those who can provide background on the dogs in the pedigree and those who can , at a show , point out and discuss the virtues or failings of a dog , or family line.
So did this kennel , before breeding , get involved with shows , or working . I had a giggle when I saw , "form AND function" -- an oft copied phrase with little understanding of what it means. What function?
Did you happen to see that the dam Janny is fast normal . Is this acceptable to you or friend . Is any party aware that by OFA this would probably be fair to borderline which is in and of itself not so much an issue , except that there are quite a few NZ's in the pedigree and there is the highly controversial Zamb Wienerau , 8 times , and Uran Wildsteigerland. The breeder should be aware that Zamb was a horrible producer for hips , Uran right there up in the numbers , many reports in SV magazines . Some of the controversy surrounding Zamb is that there is some question about the veracity of the x ray and rate actually belonging to Zamb , even some question about the pedigree, which is why DNA testing was brought in , and Herr Martin fought so vehemently against it.
At the least the breeder should have some knowledge to guide themselves through choppy water .
You can't select a pedigree by tallying up the number of V's or SchH 3's .
Curious where did the dam get her V title? I thought it was a little unusual for a V female to have zero progeny. I know there are progeny from the same sire . So was the V earned here , and the SchH 1.
I am surprised that a V can be attained with a SchH 1 basic .

any way they may be lovely pups -- ask about hip risk , ask what about the temperament - see IceBerg breeders

just some points
Carmen
Carmspack Working German Shepherd Dogs

[Liesje]

Carmen are you thinking VA? I've seen plenty of dogs go V without showing progeny and I think most V females have SchH1 and don't title beyond that especially if they only "obtained" the title for breeding and breed survey. Not condoning this, just saying.... Now I know for a VA rating the judge wants to have seen the dog multiple times, see progeny, generally for males they need SchH3, and need to have at least two generations of breed surveyed dogs in their pedigree.

As for XBox, I can't really pick apart the pedigree but I have seen Xbox himself on multiple occasions including on occasion that was not at a formal event so we were able to touch him and observe him closely as well as some of his progeny that came along. I found him to be a very stable, happy type dog. He never appeared nervy, unsettled, suspicious. He was very attached to his handler who I know put a great deal into him. He is a beautiful dog both in the ring and just being a pet. If I was looking for a WGSL to be more of a pet type dog I'd go Xbox. We did work him (not the abbreviated "courage" test you see at a show but this was actual Schutzhund training time) and I was not impressed but I've seen far far worse both show and working line. Personally I would not look to him for the working aspect and drive. Some of it was probably how he was trained originally but some of it was not. Again overall I found him to be a very safe, likable specimen.

[carmspack]

wasn't sure . Seems a little minimal for the value people place on "V" as a sales feature for those pups.
thanks
Carmen

[LARHAGE]

I love Xbox, he's the sire of Gavin, although Gavin is very much like his dam, but Xbox did contribute and I have seen a lot of very nice Xbox progeny, good solid dogs with great type and temperament, but the dam line should not be overlooked of course, that said I wouldn't hesitate to get another progeny of Xbox.

[4TheDawgies]

Originally Posted by carmspack

the web site is really scant on information on the breeders. I'm all for mentored newby's starting out . This means that in what ever venue they choose the rub shoulders with people in the know , those who can provide background on the dogs in the pedigree and those who can , at a show , point out and discuss the virtues or failings of a dog , or family line.
So did this kennel , before breeding , get involved with shows , or working . I had a giggle when I saw , "form AND function" -- an oft copied phrase with little understanding of what it means. What function?
Did you happen to see that the dam Janny is fast normal . Is this acceptable to you or friend . Is any party aware that by OFA this would probably be fair to borderline which is in and of itself not so much an issue , except that there are quite a few NZ's in the pedigree and there is the highly controversial Zamb Wienerau , 8 times , and Uran Wildsteigerland. The breeder should be aware that Zamb was a horrible producer for hips , Uran right there up in the numbers , many reports in SV magazines . Some of the controversy surrounding Zamb is that there is some question about the veracity of the x ray and rate actually belonging to Zamb , even some question about the pedigree, which is why DNA testing was brought in , and Herr Martin fought so vehemently against it.
At the least the breeder should have some knowledge to guide themselves through choppy water .
You can't select a pedigree by tallying up the number of V's or SchH 3's .


any way they may be lovely pups -- ask about hip risk , ask what about the temperament

^^^ Already covered some things I had concerns about.

Is your friend looking for a show, working, or Companion? This will greatly change the decisions on this litter.

Working ability is very important to me even if its a pet dog. Ability being key word. The dog has the ability to be more. But will be anything the home wants it to be. The GSD is meant to be a working dog and showline or not, I expect them to have that ability.
Has your friend met the dam of this litter? What is the temperament like. Is she herself a stable dog with no qualms about new situations, new people, loud noises etc.

Even for a pet home a stable animal is of utmost importance. The Sire can only improve so much. The mother is the one who spends 6 vital weeks with the puppies imprinting things on them through experiences. Bitches never get enough credit for what they do with the puppies.

What sort of socialization does this breeder do with their puppies as they grow? are they exposed to variable surfaces, different, loud, and bizarre noises, obstacle courses to overcome and build confidence on? Are they in a whelping box or a small room most of the time or do they get out and explore many different things.

This is super important to me because this sets the foundation for what these puppies consider normal. Despite what most think, a pet home can still be quite a stressful place to live without sufficient socialization. You want a dog who is not bothered by silly things like a pot falling, a child screaming, a door slamming etc. Even a dog with awesome genetics, but no previous exposure to such can become fearful of these things.

Going to a breeder who pays attention to the genetic strength of the dog, AND the foundation on the developmental stages of their dogs will be a huge difference in the dog.