How Would Your Advice Vary Based On Pedigree?

[GSDElsa]

There was a recent thread (Opinion on bloodlines/pedigree ) in which someone asked for information on their dogs lines, and it got into advice on how to handle a dogs behavior.

People were saying that the breeding was strong and giving advice on how to handle their rowdy dog. While I do not disagree with any of the advice given, it seems like most of it was good advice, period--regardless of what the pedigree was. There wasn't a lot of explanation as to what in the pedigree made is so "strong," which I think would have been helpful considering the sub-forum it was in.

So, if someone was to come to you with the following story:
"I found her on Hoobly when I was looking for GSD. I had a white GSD (Skye)for 16 years (not registered, so i have no idea on her lineage, pretty sure it wasn't working lines though)
I had the pick from the females in the litter since i was the first one to be interested in a female and it was between Dooney and another one- Dooney picked me at 4 weeks, never left me and just looked at me the whole time. I asked the breeder if she would be good for just a house dog and she said she would be good, but that she would be a great schutzhund dog too if i decided to go there. there was only one female she didn't recommend for me- but she was all black and i didn't want a black one anyway. She was one of 11 puppies and only 2 of the litter are going into Schutzhund (her one brother and Dooney used to chase the flirt pole the most out of the litter- i am still in touch with that brother and we have playdates about once a month)
She is a very good smart dog- I am having issues with her energy level and being bored in the crate (she ate the bedroom carpet in attempt to get out yesterday- trying to bring her to reputable dog daycare/training place she is there today) she is good with my cats and my 3 year old nephew) she is dominant (so was Skye) so we work on that constantly, I am definitely the alpha and she knows it.
She plays with our neighbors golden very well. We do play chase in the house and that is where i can definitely see her breeding- I don't know much about Schutzhund but i have seen where the dogs have to "hold" someone to one spot without biting- she does that to me quite well while playing. And she shadows me very well.
I don't think someone with NO GSD experience should get a working line pup- but i think i have enough experience with them and i wanted quality this time- Skye had pretty bad hips and I didn't want to deal with that again- at least wanted a dog with a smaller chance of getting bad hips.
all in all she is an excellent dog- just still going through puppy phases. I had thought about getting her into tracking- but after i saw what all goes into that, i just won't have the time, between work and my horse i just don't have THAT much time. "

How would your advice vary with the following 3 mating tests, and WHY based on the dogs in the pedigree? I completely made up 2 of the 3 of these and don't believe they are matings that have ever actually happened, so no worry in insulting a particular breeders pairing since they are hypothetical. (I did put one together for a particular reason, so I'll be interested to hear responses). For fun, the third is my own dog Medo and since it's not my story I won't be offended

1. Mating test - German Shepherd Dog

2. Mating test - German Shepherd Dog

3. Mating test - German Shepherd Dog

[GSDElsa]

Hey, and why not...for good measure I'll add a 4th in there of ASL since I have the others covered. Really clueless on these lines, so it was a complete "pick 2 dogs" scenario.

4. Mating test - German Shepherd Dog

[Uniballer]

In my experience, training is based on what shows in the dog's behavior. Not what the pedigree hints at. It is just good training to push certain buttons lightly at first until you know what you have to work with.

[cliffson1]

In order to intelligently answer this question, I would think you would have to have indepth knowledge of each of the lines in the matings.

[GSDElsa]

Originally Posted by Uniballer

In my experience, training is based on what shows in the dog's behavior. Not what the pedigree hints at. It is just good training to push certain buttons lightly at first until you know what you have to work with.

OK, you've been given the dog's behavior and you've been given the hypothetical pedigree. Would your training advice vary on each one or be the same?

Originally Posted by cliffson1

In order to intelligently answer this question, I would think you would have to have indepth knowledge of each of the lines in the matings.

Hmmmmm....I wonder if there is anyone in this thread who has already posted who might have that knowledge??? Hehehe

[Chris Wild]

Training needs to be based on the dog. Period. Not a piece of paper.

Pedigrees can be useful when selecting a dog as they can help predict the traits the dog will have. But even then this is when shopping breedings or young pups who aren't developed enough to evaluate yet. Once the dog is old enough to show what he is, look at the dog, not the paper.

The only time I would utilize a pedigree in any training situation would be if the dog is exhibiting a behavior that can have multiple root causes and for some reason it's not clear in watching the dog which of those causes is at work. Then looking at the pedigree may help answer that question and provide guidance in addressing the issue. So while it *may* be helpful in understanding certain behaviors in a dog, that's about it. Regardless of what the paper says, the dog is who he is and who he is determines how he should be handled in training.

[Chris Wild]

Originally Posted by GSDElsa

OK, you've been given the dog's behavior and you've been given the hypothetical pedigree. Would your training advice vary on each one or be the same?

In that case, the pedigree could be useful because the dog can't be seen. And a description of a behavior on the internet is typically not complete, and in many cases not even correct and what the owner assumes is going on is actually very different from what is really going on. So yes, when working with very limited information and being unable to see the dog itself, knowning the probability of certain traits being present in the dog vs not can help diagnose waht is really going on. Particularly in a situation where there are a variety of similar behaviors that can mean very different things and the people who can see the dog don't have the knowledge and experience to see the subtle differences between them to know what is really happening, knowing what the pedigree contains can help narrow it down to the most likely one based on what the pedigree would predict.

But frankly, I think trying to give training and behavioral advice via the internet or any other medium where the advisor can't see the dog and can only go by what the owner is saying about the dog... which may or may not be even remotely accurate... is naturally problematic and sometimes downright dangerous.

[Hillary_Plog]

Originally Posted by Chris Wild

Training needs to be based on the dog. Period. Not a piece of paper.

Pedigrees can be useful when selecting a dog as they can help predict the traits the dog will have. But even then this is when shopping breedings or young pups who aren't developed enough to evaluate yet. Once the dog is old enough to show what he is, look at the dog, not the paper.

The only time I would utilize a pedigree in any training situation would be if the dog is exhibiting a behavior that can have multiple root causes and for some reason it's not clear in watching the dog which of those causes is at work. Then looking at the pedigree may help answer that question and provide guidance in addressing the issue. So while it *may* be helpful in understanding certain behaviors in a dog, that's about it. Regardless of what the paper says, the dog is who he is and who he is determines how he should be handled in training.

[lhczth]

Based on the post you copied, in that case you train the dog, not the pedigree. Pedigree tells us potential and gives us an idea about how a puppy MAY turn out or how a dog MIGHT produce. Once you have the actual dog and are dealing with behavioral issues then the pedigree really doesn't matter.

[Andaka]

Originally Posted by lhczth

Based on the post you copied, in that case you train the dog, not the pedigree. Pedigree tells us potential and gives us an idea about how a puppy MAY turn out or how a dog MIGHT produce. Once you have the actual dog and are dealing with behavioral issues then the pedigree really doesn't matter.

Exactly!!!