Question on learning bloodlines

[Rowan]

Over the past few months I've come across several shepherds that have major signs of aggression. Four of them have been put down with a fifth being put down on Wednesday. This last dog is only 9 months old have has hospitalised a child and ripped off a woman's breast. I have talked to all the people about their blood lines and they all have a common grandfather, which my pup has as well. Is there a place where I can go to look into the temperments of the different blood lines? I am wanting to learn all I can about this and the pedigree database dosn't really have much infomation that I am looking for.

[4TheDawgies]

The best way to find out about a blood line is speak to multiple people with experience in owning dogs out of these blood lines. Not just someone owning a pet though, someone who actually knows dogs and knows what they are looking at when they look at a dog.

Please keep in mind that while there is a common grandfather in the lines, that most of dog accidents are entirely from the owners mishandling the animals.

It might just be that the dogs with the grandfather in their lines are more defensive dogs and were easier to turn into that then another line. I still have yet to bump into a dog that was aggressive to a human without having either a health issue or the scenario led to the dog being forced into the situation either by being cornered, or mistreated, or mishandled.

[carmspack]

oooohhhh mmmmyyyy gaaaawwwd .
how is it that you come in to contact with these insanely aggressive animals. Do you work at an incoming shelter or animal control?
Pedigree . Because your dog does have this common factor "grandfather" in the pedigree does not mean that your dog will exhibit similar problems . It all goes to how the pedigree has been moved forward , each generation.

What is this grandfather . What is your dogs pedigree.

4theDawgies -- I have met , do know dogs that are very aggressive to humans and their owners , no health issue for sure , you can see it on the pedigree, I called it when I saw the dog brought here for me to see when it was 12 weeks , not mishandled , not mistreated . Know of a lady that was savaged by her husbands dog that every one at the club begged him to be put to sleep. She ended up in hospital and had to have part of her leg muscles reconstructed. What was her offense. She bent over to pick up a kleenex that she had dropped. The dog in bite work would have red blood shot eyes and the eyes would roll back.

Heck , I came home one day to find a strange dog parked in the 16 x 8 kennel that used to be at the front of my house. This was the hold pen for the dog that would go to work with me that day . Only used in the period between dog needing to take care of potty , and my getting dressed , packed and ready to go.
So to come home to a dog in this kennel -- I knew it was not one of mine.

Approach kennel for letter, or instruction, and the thing flies against the fence throwing spit out , eyes demonically open and vacant stare.

I had to call animal control and they initially said they wouldn't come , the dog was contained , it was my responsibilty. I kept at them . All I need is for an incident with a dog that I have no association with to do something horrible and then I have to do damage control to protect the rightful good image of my own population .

When the man arrived , an experienced animal control person, he could not believe it , even thought of tranquilizing the dog first. Before he even dealt with the dog I had to sign off on him - a waiver saying that I understood that this dog could not be rehomed and had to be euthanized . Then he got his pole out and lassooed the dog . Even then the dog was flying in toward him . I then when to our local city hall to have a letter witnessed , as an avidavit , which was mailed to myself by registered mail in the event that the dog had done something horrific before being dropped off to my place.

I don't know if the people were totally irresponsible and dumped the responsibility of euthanizing the dog , the dirty work , to someone else, or if they thought I could rehab or retrain him. Never ever did find out where the dog came from.

Ripping a breast off is much more than a nip or accident .
Carmen

[cliffson1]

Certainly, there are bloodlines that you can go to that will increase aggression as they carry the genetics for it. And this is without any health issues or abuse/mismanagement. But often these lines have be bred without good nerves, or bred into lines with weak nerves, or linebred together to produce TOO much aggression for reasonable goals. There are a multitude of reasons for too much aggression. If the grandfather, they have in common is known for this, it could be a contributing factor. But ineffective ownership and weak nerves are more the reasons I see GS with aggression issues these days.

[carmspack]

right on Cliff .
The ineffective ownership is actually scary , a real worry when finding homes for pups. It never used to be this way. As the decades go by people are loosing common sense on how to be with a dog.
Carmen

[4TheDawgies]

in the scenarios you described one could argue that those are mishandling problems. I have worked with dogs like that. There is a way to handle them correctly so these things don't happen. mishandling them can create exactly what you described.

Dogs with a lot of aggression, not enough nerve, fearful or dominant etc. All of those things can be controlled, I've seen it in some of the craziest of dogs. The problem is when someone doesn't know, or doesn't try to control it.

[PaddyD]

Originally Posted by carmspack

right on Cliff .
The ineffective ownership is actually scary , a real worry when finding homes for pups. It never used to be this way. As the decades go by people are loosing common sense on how to be with a dog.
Carmen

There nothing so uncommon as common sense. They aren't losing it, they never had it. There is a significant number of members in this forum that have aggressive dogs and they are doing everything they can, including expensive trainers and socialization. What are THESE people to do? Execute their dogs or continue to pour money and time into a (perhaps beautiful but) defective dog? Yes, I said 'execute'. Euthanize implies the dog is suffering.

[carmspack]

there is no question that the dogs are not stable.
unfortunately not every owner is a super duper hyper savvy k9 handler -- and they should not walk around on egg shells wondering what or when something will trigger this attack . Attack .
This is not what the breed is or should be .
Carmen

[carmspack]

I know PaddyD. The dog is suffering though . They are not relaxed or content or happy . Their aggression or fear keeps reducing their world, more and more narrow and closed off . They are a problem so get neglected , denied the pleasure of being a companion.
I would just love to look at the pedigree of every GSD bite.(outside of official police and sport of course)

What do you think you would see?

Carmen
Carmspack Working German Shepherd Dogs

[Rowan]

I'm a dog groomer, I have a friend that works at a vet clinic, I also spend a lot of time at my vet clinic working with Rowan and I spend a lot of time with trainers and at training places. Rowan I guess would be a poor nerve shepherd, he is very shy and dosn't like strangers coming up to him at all. I've been working with him since I got him and I have made a lot of progress with him. (We had one hickup when he was younger and still have some work with that...) I have a wonderful trainer that works a lot with agressive dogs and I've talked to several of the other people who go to him. I've gotten all my informatoin from all those places.

The common grandfather is Mar Haven's Color Guard.

The lady who was attacked was the dog's trainer at Petco. They were doing sit and stay with distractions. She walked away from the dog (left it with the owner) a couple of feet and when she walked back up to them it attacked her.