Comment on Temperament

valreegrl · 08-10-2011, 02:54 PM

Here is a link to Sire of pup: Bailey's Irish Shepherd - German Shepherd Dog

Can't find anything on Dam, but based on background, may be BYB as he was not on premises. (looked up Dam's reg number, nothing: DN16594203(01-11)

We were contacted by elderly woman, yes elderly! Her and her ELDERLY husband bought this pup at 10 weeks old. They are now defending themselves from the pup with an ironing board, yes an ironing board!

Would love opinions on lines, etc. And if anyone has info on Dam that would be great too. Just trying to get an idea on background for behav. assessment as this couple was told by Vet that this pup is a 'red-zone' dog!

**MaggieRoseLee** · 08-10-2011, 03:29 PM

How old is the puppy now?

And you'll have to have someone actually see and visit the dog. A normal high drive puppy for an unprepared older couple could be WAY over the top and unmanageable, but not necessarily from 'aggression'.

Vet's are usually pretty useless at gauging temperment. Both cause our dogs act differently at the vets and it's just not a got atmosphere to judge 'normal'.

selzer · 08-10-2011, 03:34 PM

I think that you are probably right in your assessment of BYB. Hard to say for certain. But why are they not calling the breeder and asking for help and advice.

That 01/11 means that is when her name was first entered in the stud book, so, if the guy registered the pups at 8 weeks -- (probably earlier than that so the pup would be younger) this pup is a maximum of 10 months old, and probably more like 8 or 9 months old. This could be her second litter I guess, in that case the pup is 2-4 months old maybe.

In the sire's background is some imported working lines three generations back, and then AKC since then. From what is updated there, nothing in the area of what they are doing with the dogs. So I guess assuming the worst that these are people who just put the dogs together.

Was the Dam not on the premises? Did they buy the dog from the stud owner? That is interesting. Not owning sire or dam does not suggest BYB, actually most BYBs do not go the route of outside studs, they usually have a dog and use it for all their bitches. Sometimes people will breed their stud dog for a puppy. And if the breeding is nothing they want to go forward with, they will often sell the pup. So that might be why they have the sire and the pup, but not the dam.

Have these people taken the puppy to classes? Did it go from nice, sweet, compliant puppy to snarling tasmanian devil over night?

Someone might know some of those lines that are back there. It does sound like the owners are over there head. Going to the vet was a start. But it sounds like they need someone with experience with shepherds to come and evaluate the dog. Is that what you are going to do?

valreegrl · 08-10-2011, 03:57 PM

The pup is 4 months old. Dam is Lass-Alice Chase, but cannot find pedigree.

The couple bought the puppy at 10 weeks old, it's only exercise is the small row home backyard. The Dam was on the premises but not sire. However, it's Sire's background that I could find, not Dam. Apparently the breeder simply needed money which was the cause of this litter (from what I was told, I am getting information second hand so cannot commit to that answer)

After talking with them it sounds as if the pup is simply seeking attention....she literally stalks them and they whip out the ironing board. They are simply overwhelmed

My partner in the rescue is a behaviorist and will be doing a full eval tomorrow. Just wanted to get somewhat of an idea of pedigree before-hand to better gauge the pup. So far, the elderly couple are looking to re-home and asked us to take this pup and find them a more suitable fit. Final answer to that will take place after eval. The husband in this couple wanted to euth and the Vet refused which is how they ended up with us.

robinhuerta · 08-10-2011, 04:12 PM

Euth a 4mo old puppy...for being a "puppy"?.....I cannot post a true expression of my feelings...*I would probably be banned*.
Just take the pup is my opinion.....evaluate it yourself.
Had a similar situation myself....(too much puppy, loads of excuses or stupid reasons)...I requested puppy.

**Samba** · 08-10-2011, 04:21 PM

Poor puppy!

People just don't get it. I have a couple looking for a German Shepherd. I offered them an older girl with impeccable house manners....Too old! Offer an adolescent...too much dog. Sometimes a shih tzu is the answer.

**JakodaCD OA** · 08-10-2011, 04:22 PM

an ironing board on a 4mth old puppy?? eeee gads! and euth him/her?? double eee gads,, take the puppy, take the puppy..

selzer · 08-10-2011, 04:31 PM

Glad the vet would not euth, but for heaven's sake call a four month old pup a red-zone case??? And people think we have not had too much of Ceasar.

valreegrl · 08-10-2011, 04:57 PM

We definitely will be taking the pup into rescue, if they request that. I feel terrible for this couple as they have had a GSD forever, and were not expecting this type of drive in a puppy. The breeder....well, selling a puppy to these people was just outrageous.

But from what I can gather from the pedigree (and that is definitely not my forte) it looks like the Sire has working lines in both Sch and personal protection. However, that looks removed a couple generations. Is there anywhere else I can get a hold of the Dam's pedigree?

suzzyq01 · 08-10-2011, 05:05 PM

This was the only thing I could find.

Dog Information

AKC No.: DN16594203 Name: Lass-Alice Chase Sex: Female Breed: German Shepherd Dog Variety:
Color: Black & Tan Markings:
Birth Date: 12/03/2006

08-10-2011, 02:54 PM	#1 (permalink)
valreegrl Master Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Southeast PA, USA Posts: 608	Comment on Temperament Here is a link to Sire of pup: Bailey's Irish Shepherd - German Shepherd Dog Can't find anything on Dam, but based on background, may be BYB as he was not on premises. (looked up Dam's reg number, nothing: DN16594203(01-11) We were contacted by elderly woman, yes elderly! Her and her ELDERLY husband bought this pup at 10 weeks old. They are now defending themselves from the pup with an ironing board, yes an ironing board! Would love opinions on lines, etc. And if anyone has info on Dam that would be great too. Just trying to get an idea on background for behav. assessment as this couple was told by Vet that this pup is a 'red-zone' dog! __________________ Weiss Timberwolf von Sangmeister - born 06/10/09 Roxy the Rockstar Kardashian - born 09/02/10

08-10-2011, 03:29 PM	#2 (permalink)
MaggieRoseLee The Agility Rocks! Moderator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Bushkill, PA (The Poconos!) Posts: 22,205	How old is the puppy now? And you'll have to have someone actually see and visit the dog. A normal high drive puppy for an unprepared older couple could be WAY over the top and unmanageable, but not necessarily from 'aggression'. Vet's are usually pretty useless at gauging temperment. Both cause our dogs act differently at the vets and it's just not a got atmosphere to judge 'normal'. __________________ MACH2 Bretta Lee Wildhaus CGC TC TQX Glory B Wildhaus NA, NJ, NF + LOL (still) "*Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much." - Oscar Wilde*

08-10-2011, 03:34 PM	#3 (permalink)
selzer Crowned Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Denmark, Ohio Posts: 17,499	I think that you are probably right in your assessment of BYB. Hard to say for certain. But why are they not calling the breeder and asking for help and advice. That 01/11 means that is when her name was first entered in the stud book, so, if the guy registered the pups at 8 weeks -- (probably earlier than that so the pup would be younger) this pup is a maximum of 10 months old, and probably more like 8 or 9 months old. This could be her second litter I guess, in that case the pup is 2-4 months old maybe. In the sire's background is some imported working lines three generations back, and then AKC since then. From what is updated there, nothing in the area of what they are doing with the dogs. So I guess assuming the worst that these are people who just put the dogs together. Was the Dam not on the premises? Did they buy the dog from the stud owner? That is interesting. Not owning sire or dam does not suggest BYB, actually most BYBs do not go the route of outside studs, they usually have a dog and use it for all their bitches. Sometimes people will breed their stud dog for a puppy. And if the breeding is nothing they want to go forward with, they will often sell the pup. So that might be why they have the sire and the pup, but not the dam. Have these people taken the puppy to classes? Did it go from nice, sweet, compliant puppy to snarling tasmanian devil over night? Someone might know some of those lines that are back there. It does sound like the owners are over there head. Going to the vet was a start. But it sounds like they need someone with experience with shepherds to come and evaluate the dog. Is that what you are going to do? __________________ RIP Arwen, CD RN CGC RIP Whitney, RN CGC Jenna, RN CGC Babs, CD RA CGC Herding Instinct Certificate Heidi, RA CGC Tori, RN CGC SG3 Odessa, SchH1, Kkl1, AD Ninja, RN CGC Milla, RN CGC Joy, Star Puppy, RN CGC Dolly & Bear

08-10-2011, 03:57 PM	#4 (permalink)
valreegrl Master Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Southeast PA, USA Posts: 608	The pup is 4 months old. Dam is Lass-Alice Chase, but cannot find pedigree. The couple bought the puppy at 10 weeks old, it's only exercise is the small row home backyard. The Dam was on the premises but not sire. However, it's Sire's background that I could find, not Dam. Apparently the breeder simply needed money which was the cause of this litter (from what I was told, I am getting information second hand so cannot commit to that answer) After talking with them it sounds as if the pup is simply seeking attention....she literally stalks them and they whip out the ironing board. They are simply overwhelmed My partner in the rescue is a behaviorist and will be doing a full eval tomorrow. Just wanted to get somewhat of an idea of pedigree before-hand to better gauge the pup. So far, the elderly couple are looking to re-home and asked us to take this pup and find them a more suitable fit. Final answer to that will take place after eval. The husband in this couple wanted to euth and the Vet refused which is how they ended up with us. __________________ Weiss Timberwolf von Sangmeister - born 06/10/09 Roxy the Rockstar Kardashian - born 09/02/10 Last edited by valreegrl; 08-10-2011 at 04:00 PM.

08-10-2011, 04:12 PM	#5 (permalink)
robinhuerta Knighted Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Illinois Posts: 3,224	Euth a 4mo old puppy...for being a "puppy"?.....I cannot post a true expression of my feelings...I would probably be banned. Just take the pup is my opinion.....evaluate it yourself. Had a similar situation myself....(too much puppy, loads of excuses or stupid reasons)...I requested puppy. __________________ Huerta Hof German Shepherds www.teamhuertahof.com ....where breeding is still considered an art....

08-10-2011, 04:21 PM	#6 (permalink)
Samba Administrator Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: USA Posts: 6,447	Poor puppy! People just don't get it. I have a couple looking for a German Shepherd. I offered them an older girl with impeccable house manners....Too old! Offer an adolescent...too much dog. Sometimes a shih tzu is the answer.

08-10-2011, 04:22 PM	#7 (permalink)
JakodaCD OA Moderator Join Date: May 2000 Location: Old Lyme, CT USA Posts: 14,237	an ironing board on a 4mth old puppy?? eeee gads! and euth him/her?? double eee gads,, take the puppy, take the puppy.. __________________ Diane Danger Danger vom Kleinen Hain aka Masi "Angel" Jakoda's Bewitchen Sami CD OA OAJ OAC NGC OJC RS-O GS-N JS-O TT HIC CGC "Angel" Steinwald's Four x Four CGC HIC TT Harmonyhill's Hy Jynx NA NAJ NAC NJC RS-N JS-N HIC Jakoda's Jagged Edge

08-10-2011, 04:31 PM	#8 (permalink)
selzer Crowned Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Denmark, Ohio Posts: 17,499	Glad the vet would not euth, but for heaven's sake call a four month old pup a red-zone case??? And people think we have not had too much of Ceasar. __________________ RIP Arwen, CD RN CGC RIP Whitney, RN CGC Jenna, RN CGC Babs, CD RA CGC Herding Instinct Certificate Heidi, RA CGC Tori, RN CGC SG3 Odessa, SchH1, Kkl1, AD Ninja, RN CGC Milla, RN CGC Joy, Star Puppy, RN CGC Dolly & Bear

08-10-2011, 04:57 PM	#9 (permalink)
valreegrl Master Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Southeast PA, USA Posts: 608	We definitely will be taking the pup into rescue, if they request that. I feel terrible for this couple as they have had a GSD forever, and were not expecting this type of drive in a puppy. The breeder....well, selling a puppy to these people was just outrageous. But from what I can gather from the pedigree (and that is definitely not my forte) it looks like the Sire has working lines in both Sch and personal protection. However, that looks removed a couple generations. Is there anywhere else I can get a hold of the Dam's pedigree? __________________ Weiss Timberwolf von Sangmeister - born 06/10/09 Roxy the Rockstar Kardashian - born 09/02/10

08-10-2011, 05:05 PM	#10 (permalink)
suzzyq01 Master Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Dracut, MA Posts: 634	This was the only thing I could find. Dog Information AKC No.: DN16594203 Name: Lass-Alice Chase Sex: Female Breed: German Shepherd Dog Variety: Color: Black & Tan Markings: Birth Date: 12/03/2006 __________________ Gobles Sonar vom Shipwreck, CGC Dark Sable 100% DDR German Shepherd (4/1/2010) Frosty Onyx Glacier, CGC Grey/White Siberian Husky (8/29/2005)

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