Inbred lines

[SpicyBulldog]

Are there any tightly inbred lines in the GSD? What is typical when it comes to line breeding?

I'm also wondering if any "defects" in inbred dogs specifically have been produced and then said to be a result of Inbreeding?

[cliffson1]

There is not as much tight "inbreeding" in the GS lines, though there is much longterm linebreeding of 10 to 15 straight generations of the same dogs, cousins, and uncles. These particular lines are known for their extremes, usually in structure. They are no longer sought for high sport or work, and you have other lines that are linebred for specific breeding goals. These dogs tend to have more balance and the linebreeding will be to gain something or correct something, but then they move back to the middle.

[SpicyBulldog]

Do you have pedigree examples of those bred for 10+ generations and if they are not sought for sport is it show or simply a certain extreme structure / look? I apologise in advance for my ignorance.

[cliffson1]

Its for show...take any West German showline dog today, go back 10 to 15 generations and it will stare out at you.

[Deejays_Owner]

My Male High-Line Line-breeding - 5 generations
5 - 5 .......... in VA1 Zamb von der Wienerau
4 - 4 .......... in V Flick von Arlett
5,5 - 5.......... in VA5 Yago vom Wildsteiger Land
5 - 5 .......... in V12 Ursa von Arlett
4 - 5 .......... in V1 Cim vom Ecknachtal

Then in the 6th it starts showing!!
V3 Cello von der Römerau (5,6 - 6,6,6,6)
A direct line to Uran!!
VA1 Uran vom Wildsteiger Land (6,7,7,7,7,7,7 - 7,7,7,7,7,7,7,7,7)
VA3 Xitta vom Kirschental in his 7th (7,7 - 7 All with Uran)!!

[cliffson1]

And people can't or won't make the connection between this much linbreeding and less than overall acceptable temperament and health. I don't speak from emotions or what I like, I speak from plain facts. Get any of these WGSL dogs do the same and they ALL will show similar results. Can't people see how much of the breed has been EXCLUDED for some 10 to 15 generations. Is this responsible breeding or ....Well forget it. It is what it is, but don't try to tell me these lines are the same in what the breed should be as they were in the past, because the genetics clearly shows they ain't.

[carmspack]

Uran Wildsteiger land NOT to be confused with Uran Kirschental !! was the dog most oftened mentioned in the SV magazines as having progeny "mit Schwere HD" -- removed for breeding . This created a real bottle neck in show lines.

[SpicyBulldog]

Don't have a GSD but I've not seen a correlation with inbeeeding and poor temperament and temperament issues.

Health can be a different story if there are recessive problems or a mutation occurred. There is also the issue if immunity and lifespan.

I think it is interesting the views on different types of breedings from breed to breed.

Originally Posted by Deejays_Owner

My Male High-Line Line-breeding - 5 generations
5 - 5 .......... in VA1 Zamb von der Wienerau
4 - 4 .......... in V Flick von Arlett
5,5 - 5.......... in VA5 Yago vom Wildsteiger Land
5 - 5 .......... in V12 Ursa von Arlett
4 - 5 .......... in V1 Cim vom Ecknachtal

Then in the 6th it starts showing!!
V3 Cello von der Römerau (5,6 - 6,6,6,6)
A direct line to Uran!!
VA1 Uran vom Wildsteiger Land (6,7,7,7,7,7,7 - 7,7,7,7,7,7,7,7,7)
VA3 Xitta vom Kirschental in his 7th (7,7 - 7 All with Uran)!!

What is the COI for this dog? In 6 generations, in 10 generations.

[cliffson1]

The temperament issues for extensive in or linebreeding is directly related to the dog or dogs used for the in/linebreeding. If you extensively linebreed ona Canto vd Wienereau, who was weak in temperament and more importantly from weak tempered stock.......then its not hard to understand that as you keep pounding and pounding him into pedigrees generation after generation, the temperament will suffer. Commom sense to me, but many many others are in denial.

[SpicyBulldog]

Originally Posted by cliffson1

The temperament issues for extensive in or linebreeding is directly related to the dog or dogs used for the in/linebreeding. If you extensively linebreed ona Canto vd Wienereau, who was weak in temperament and more importantly from weak tempered stock.......then its not hard to understand that as you keep pounding and pounding him into pedigrees generation after generation, the temperament will suffer. Commom sense to me, but many many others are in denial.

I fully agree with that. Temperament is genetic so it only makes sense. Some people believe line breeding period makes bad temperament dogs.