Fero & Mink?

Freestep · 06-29-2011, 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wolfstraum

Personally, I have several sources of Mink/Fero free blood, and zealously guard it. It is mixed WG WL, DDR, Belgian and will be bringing in some Czech with Gaston and Kutter I hope this summer. I have one female (KKL1) line bred on Fero, and am trying to avoid more Fero with her. And I did bring in a female pup recently who is WGR but free of Fero and Mink, who ties into my current lines.

This from another thread. What are the issues with Fero and Mink that you want to get away from? Is it just that these dogs are in so many working pedigrees that there is a danger of too much linebreeding?

**Chris Wild** · 06-29-2011, 11:38 AM

The concern is mainly genetic bottlenecking. This is far more of a concern on Fero than Mink. Mink isn't hard to find, but also not at all difficult to find dogs without him if one wants to avoid more Mink. But finding a dog without Fero, often 2, 3, 4 times in the pedigree, is becoming almost impossible it seems.

holland · 06-29-2011, 01:10 PM

Ah...the drama if you are so concerned about that just go get a dog from wolfstraum-problem solved

holland · 06-29-2011, 01:13 PM

Oh if you want Fero free you might go with wildhaus-depending on who she picks for the next sire...imagine that -what luck

Freestep · 06-29-2011, 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by holland

Ah...the drama if you are so concerned about that just go get a dog from wolfstraum-problem solved

Drama? Problem? Expound on this please. I'm here to learn.

holland · 06-29-2011, 01:39 PM

Ok but I gotta go clean my house for starters my dog has fero and mink in her-no problem she is also missing 2 teeth but I'll keep her anyway. But you read this over and over on the internet -wolfstraum has made that post over and over again and usually someone comes along and post exactly what Chris just posts and that is the gist of it. someone with more knowledge than I will come along and post something educational for you-but I really have to clean my house and then take my fero/mink dog off to training

BlackthornGSD · 06-29-2011, 01:42 PM

I wouldn't worry about finding a Fero-Mink free dog unless you plan on breeding.

These dogs are common because they produced a lot of good things in their kids and they combined well with a lot of other bloodlines.

But Fero really is becoming quite a bottleneck because of his many good-producing sons and grandsons. For a demonstration, go call up the pedigrees of the top 10 WUSV winners from any of the last 5 years and look how many times you see Fero show up.

Liesje · 06-29-2011, 02:13 PM

holland, no one is saying the dogs suck. My new dog has Fero 3 times in his 6-gen and I don't care. I mean I care, but in his case I don't necessarily see it as a bad thing, it just helps explain some things and is important to consider if the dog is ever going to be bred. Everyone has dogs they love to line breed on a dogs they try to avoid.

Freestep · 06-29-2011, 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackthornGSD

I wouldn't worry about finding a Fero-Mink free dog unless you plan on breeding.

These dogs are common because they produced a lot of good things in their kids and they combined well with a lot of other bloodlines.

But Fero really is becoming quite a bottleneck because of his many good-producing sons and grandsons. For a demonstration, go call up the pedigrees of the top 10 WUSV winners from any of the last 5 years and look how many times you see Fero show up.

Indeed. Both my GSDs have Mink and Fero.

What in particular they known for producing?

I heard it said that Fero was bred to a LOT of bitches, some good and some not so good... when the combination was good, it seemed to "click" very nicely, but if the bitches were weak, there would tend to be temperament issues in the offspring. If anyone can speak to particulars, that would be appreciated as I didn't get much more information.

**Castlemaid** · 06-29-2011, 02:34 PM

Fero and Mink have produced reliably excellent dogs and have been used extensively for those reasons. But a few generations down the road, breeders need to be aware of maintaning a genetic diversity in the breed, and thus their effort to find dogs that don't have Fero and/or Mink in them. But hard, because the best dogs (like holland's) have Fero and Mink in their pedigree (and often repeatedly), so a challenge to find good dogs with different lines running through them.

It is their very success at passing their genetic stamp down the line that is causing some challenges for breeders.

No drama, just a bit of misunderstanding.

06-29-2011, 11:38 AM	#2 (permalink)
Chris Wild Administrator & Alpha Bitch of the Wild Bunch Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Michigan, USA Posts: 12,604	The concern is mainly genetic bottlenecking. This is far more of a concern on Fero than Mink. Mink isn't hard to find, but also not at all difficult to find dogs without him if one wants to avoid more Mink. But finding a dog without Fero, often 2, 3, 4 times in the pedigree, is becoming almost impossible it seems. __________________ *Wildhaus Kennels* Kaiser ~ SchH3 CGC TDI (HOT) Raven ~ SchH3 AWD2 PD1 P1 PA T1 UCD URO2 CGC TT (B/HOT) Della ~ SchHA TR1 PD1 P1 PA T1 URO2 CGC TT (B/HOT) Wulf ~ SchH1 PD1 P1 T1 URO2 CGC TT (B/HOT) Heidi ~ BH CD UCD RN URO1 (B/HOT) Jazz ~ Superpup In Training

06-29-2011, 01:42 PM	#7 (permalink)
BlackthornGSD Elite Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Central Virginia Posts: 1,094	I wouldn't worry about finding a Fero-Mink free dog unless you plan on breeding. These dogs are common because they produced a lot of good things in their kids and they combined well with a lot of other bloodlines. But Fero really is becoming quite a bottleneck because of his many good-producing sons and grandsons. For a demonstration, go call up the pedigrees of the top 10 WUSV winners from any of the last 5 years and look how many times you see Fero show up. __________________ Christine Blackthorn Working German Shepherds

06-29-2011, 02:13 PM	#8 (permalink)
Liesje Crowned Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Grand Rapids, MI Posts: 12,962	holland, no one is saying the dogs suck. My new dog has Fero 3 times in his 6-gen and I don't care. I mean I care, but in his case I don't necessarily see it as a bad thing, it just helps explain some things and is important to consider if the dog is ever going to be bred. Everyone has dogs they love to line breed on a dogs they try to avoid. __________________ UCH Alta-Tollhaus-Krieger Lamb Chop FO OB1 CL1R CL1F RA TT HIT TDI CGC VPC's Coca-Cola HIT CGC SG UCH Alta-Tollhaus Bono SchH1 AD T1 FO PA CL1R UNJ UCA HIT TT CGC OFA SG Pantalaimon vom Geistwasser BH AD HIT CGC

06-29-2011, 02:34 PM	#10 (permalink)
Castlemaid Moderator Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Northern British Columbia Posts: 9,088	Fero and Mink have produced reliably excellent dogs and have been used extensively for those reasons. But a few generations down the road, breeders need to be aware of maintaning a genetic diversity in the breed, and thus their effort to find dogs that don't have Fero and/or Mink in them. But hard, because the best dogs (like holland's) have Fero and Mink in their pedigree (and often repeatedly), so a challenge to find good dogs with different lines running through them. It is their very success at passing their genetic stamp down the line that is causing some challenges for breeders. No drama, just a bit of misunderstanding. __________________ Lucia Keeta BH, OB1, TR1, AD (HOT) Rottweiler/Hairy Dog mix?? Shelter rescue Gryffon Vom Wildhaus BH, OFA Good (HOT) "Bites Through the Sleeve" Cuddlebug, b: Mar 2009

06-29-2011, 01:10 PM	#3 (permalink)
holland Crowned Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 3,630	Ah...the drama if you are so concerned about that just go get a dog from wolfstraum-problem solved

06-29-2011, 01:13 PM	#4 (permalink)
holland Crowned Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 3,630	Oh if you want Fero free you might go with wildhaus-depending on who she picks for the next sire...imagine that -what luck

06-29-2011, 01:39 PM	#6 (permalink)
holland Crowned Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 3,630	Ok but I gotta go clean my house for starters my dog has fero and mink in her-no problem she is also missing 2 teeth but I'll keep her anyway. But you read this over and over on the internet -wolfstraum has made that post over and over again and usually someone comes along and post exactly what Chris just posts and that is the gist of it. someone with more knowledge than I will come along and post something educational for you-but I really have to clean my house and then take my fero/mink dog off to training

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