Hardness, Civil, Aggression, and Protection Drives in West German Working Lines?

[gilariversun]

Basic question - which West German working lines are best known for producing hard protection drives with high levels of civil drives and aggression? I have heard Yoshy/Rocky through Troll are good choices, as is the Tom/Orry line. What are your experiences?

[suze]

Hi G

Your post may actually answer a question i posted today, i have just joined today actually.

It s in th e breeding thread i think about companion / working lines in GSD's

I will be getting a GSD possibly in a few months, havent had one for 20 plus years.

I was under the impression that
A:
There were lines better suited as work lines, with high drive for guard work , Police , Army etc.

B:
Then there are lines bred specifically more suitable as companion animals.

But today i was told, no thats not right, they are all essentially capable to be trained up to work.

So, im now a bit confused, as i really will be looking for a pretty low drive laid back Dog, **lacking the drive that i would have thought working dogs would possess in **greater concentation, can you enlighten me

Thanks

[JOSHUA SAMPSON]

best answer, "Look at the relatives." If you have good lines the family tree will show it, most good breeders can articulate which dogs in their lines were/are, 1. Schutzhund champions, 2. police dogs, 3. best tracking dogs, etc

[wolfstraum]

West German working lines are currently known for high prey drive above all other - bred for sport dogs (just my opinion, of course )

Good companion dogs can be born in every litter if the breeder wants balance in drives, good nerves, social and environmental nerve stability. Certain lines known for "aggressiveness", particularly when linebred, sometimes end up with litters which have not been bred to be balanced out with good S &E nerves, and are overloaded with prey....not only WGR working, but other European subgroups as well.....

I would not consider Tom Leefdalhof a source of aggression. Yoshey - yes, Crok yes, and Asko as well....but these males CAN be and have been balanced out if judiciously bred with carefully chosen pairs for the most part. Appropriate social (civil) aggression is a component of correct temperament. But so are intelligence, a discerning ability to recognize a threat and loyalty.

Lee

[Smithie86]

The last few breedings we have done were to West German lines. But, it also depends on what you breed to (dog), what they are producing and the dam. And both breedings were planned way in advanced, based on what we had seen from both lines on the field, owned or worked by others that we know.

We got very strong agression, high hunt drive, possession/ball drive, grips, etc. But balanced with the ability to be around people. But these litters are very strong working and we took time placing in experienced homes.

[cliffson1]

Ditto what Wolfstraum says!!

[gilariversun]

Yoshi, Crock, Asko - this is exactly the information I was hoping for. Very specific animals known to produce these specific qualities. Any other recommendations?

[wolfstraum]

Have used males both with Yoshey and Crok.............the Yoshey son was balanced with a very very very stable (S&E) female who had fantastic hunt drive - pup should have gone to a SAR home - but instead lives in a multi-dog household and is super competitive in Agility (going for MACH???? whatever!) and AKC obedience....owner keep saying they need to do AKC tracking with her....

The litter carrying Crok is due in a few weeks....the dam's 3/4 sister had a litter to the same male and they are super stable, great S&E nerves, and in homes with high level competition goals....on THAT basis (the actual pups because I have seen them!!) I went ahead and bred Hexe to Chuck who carries Crok....we shall see....both Axel and Ava are good in the house, and so I expect the same from my 7/8 siblings.

I would NOT however, do breedings with these lines without careful consideration of the parent's temperaments, previous offspring etc.

Lee

[cassadee7]

What does "civil" mean in this context?

[wolfstraum]

Originally Posted by cassadee7

What does "civil" mean in this context?

a real life situation (or set up situation) where aggression towards a threat is needed....dogs like this often called "real" -

And these dogs can be stable family dogs too.

Lee