At what point does the pedigree become less important in selection?

[jocoyn]

I have metioned before that next year I will be looking for an older puppy (trying to fix on best age to integrate with my spayed female-agressive female whe likes neutered and intact males, and my intact male who has no issues with other male dogs but will posture if allowed free-run)...And I just like the males better....

By posturing I mean no hackles, not growling, just the head over shoulder and attempts to head butt. I have not let this work itself out but just stopped it. I would probably not let two males run in my fenced yard unsupervised anyway but don't want to constantly have to juggle dogs either and constantly worry about a fight.

Anyway - most the folks I know (LE, SAR) really DON'T know much about their dogs' lines and I know to a certain point WYSIWYG..so other than the general impression I have stated before about liking a lot of Czech/W German not sure how to strategize for next year.

A lot of folks work labs and mals but it is hard for me to articulate the working bond I feel with the shepherd.....it is like a constant sense...who has the words?

The ongoing prey thread is interesting though because I gather that you can't see everything you need to see at 6 mos to a year. How much can you tell in this time period? Hips/back? Drives & temperament (certainly know eval tests but FEMA eval is for a dog 12 to 24 mos)- What is the best age to introduce a dog when it will be integrated into a setting with a family and other dogs? How to balance these variables? When does the pedigree fade into the background as a predictor?


Really for this next cadaver dog I will be looking for a dog that has good drives but not one that goes berserk. From what I have seen , a dog that can work steadily in detail mode for long periods of time is better than a frantic one..but then you also need one willing to range out and work independantly. One that id dog and people neutral and with confidence and great nerve. So I think that is not "less" drive, but a calmer more focused animal and I just can't get tangled up in the terminology.


Anyway-- so I talk with the SAR and LE folks, most of which are "I dunno" and am not immersed in the breeding/sport/etc world. ----

[lhczth]

To answer your original question; when the dog is old enough that he can be evaluated on his own merits. A young dog around a year (give or take) should give you a pretty darn good idea of his potential for SAR and is old enough for prelims on hips/elbows. He will also be pretty close to his mature height (not weight) and will still be pretty raw so not a lot of retraining to do. Once a dog is old enough, pedigree only becomes important for breeding and possible future health issues (and even then nature surprises us at times).

[jocoyn]

Thanks. Do you think a year old male is still young enough to integrate in with my other dogs or should that even matter if the dogs have the right temperament? Like I said, I don't figure I would ever leave them alone unsupervised. (3 dogs just seems to be a different dynamic)

I at least want to keep a male intact until fully mature and don't mind signing a no breeding thing. After the angst I went through with my current male, and the risk of a puppy I was actually relieved when I found out he was shooting blanks.

(and assuming I am correct about my male but I have ONLY seen the behavior I have stated and he had a lot of tolerance with snarky insecure dogs.....he just turns his head and throws them calming signals - he is great in that regard)

[GSDElsa]

Here's my thought on it from going through the whole puppy vs. adult things...I think it depends. Elsa is super dominant with other dogs (does the same posturing your dog does, but also hackels....but she gets hackles up when playing in the front yard by herself too). We've fostered a few times. We've puppy sat. We've had a lot of play dates. She's never gotten in a fight with another dog, but she doesn't relax either. She likes to be up in their biznass and making sure they aren't up to anything.

We decided after talking to a lot of people and seeing her interactions with puppies through adults to get a puppy. That's just us, but she really seems to accept puppies. The puppy pass is definitley there. I really seemed like a better. bet. Obviously no puppy yet...so it's TBD. But she's been around so many dogs that I think we have a pretty good idea.

But another dog could perhaps not bad an eye at a young adult coming in.

[lhczth]

I have actually never tried to bring anything but a puppy into my pack. Donovan would accept another girl. Don't know about a boy. The girls would be accepting of another boy, but I not sure about another girl. For me, it doesn't matter. If the dog is what I want then I figure out a way to make it work. I am used to playing musical crates with the girls.

[Chris Wild]

I think around a year old is a good age for stacking things in favor of success on both fronts. Old enough for the dog to have enough mental and physical development to make a pretty good assessment on most things, and a good inkling into those that are still to come with more maturity. Young enough that while not possessing a full "puppy pass", it's not a fully mature adult either so is more likely to come in and defer to the existing dogs without rocking the boat too much, and be more easily accepted by the existing dogs becuase it is still a juvenile, and they know it.

At that age also, pedigree doesn't matter (unless for breeding, or possibly health, as was mentioned). But a year old dog is old enough to evaluate well enough that the dog will show what he is and what the papers say about him is more for curiosity than anything else, though depending on what the dog is showing knowing a bit of the genetics about the dog may clarify some things and provide some clues as to what, if anything, different to expect as he continues to mature.

[Samba]

I have no good advice on this either. I am not a successful "integrator". I guess it really depends on the dogs being put together. I have to not let my males or females out together. Of course, I have always gotten dogs for myself, not for one another, so it was not critical to me that they hang out together.

[jocoyn]

I know it is tough. We brought Grim in when he was 2 and I already had an older adult neutered male who was not too keen on other dogs but we took our time with introductions and made it work....I guess I would rather risk juggling crates than having a dog that can't work......(I could rehome without adequate drives but with bad hips or temperament then that is harder)