Tom van't Leefhalhoof

GSDElsa · 03-01-2011, 02:53 PM

I was having fun with the Falk thread, so I decided to do a spin-off with another dog.

I've seen a lot of breeders mention Tom in threads recently. Obviously he's not producing anymore, but what did you like about him? Dislike? What were the strongest traits he brought to the table?

What types of females did he pair best with? What are his favorite kids that he produced. Grandkids? Where do you think the best place is for him to be in a pedigree?

**MaggieRoseLee** · 03-01-2011, 08:56 PM

JLOCKHART29 · 03-03-2011, 06:25 AM

Interested in where this thread goes. I'm sure Wolfstraum will comment when she see's it as she has used his Gringo son in her breeding program. She also found my Tom both sides great grandson I imported last summer out of a Gringo daughter and a Vito son. So far except for a 3 week "stupid" period he went threw a couple weeks ago he has truly been amazing. There was a thread a while ago about over the top ball drive which was the case in this dog. I could use a tug but a ball would just get you that glazed over eye look where the lights were on but nobody was home! Lol Since he has come threw that "stage" he has really settled. The drive is still there but much more controlled and am even using a a ball again some.
Auron ze Stribrneho Kamene - German shepherd dog

elisabeth_00117 · 03-03-2011, 02:30 PM

Great topic Justine!

I was going to ask about Tom earlier but totally forgot!

There are a few pairings that have Tom in them and I was always seeing his name pop up here and there.

VERY curious to hear about him and his "kids".

wolfstraum · 03-03-2011, 03:53 PM

Tom was trained by one of, if not THE, best trainers in the world.
He got alot of litters as have done his sons and grandsons also owned/trained by the same man. Trainability is a trait that I think goes with this line.

I have done 3 litters from Tom sons and my Ufo daughter Basha....what I got was in the most part, more Basha....

All three litters for the **most part*** were "sporty" - 2 pups in the G had more innate aggression and dominance - but that litter had 7 males!! I also got 3 coats there - which you will get from Tom - the other 2 litters had only 2 males and 6 females...my females were all strong in prey and ball drive, along with very annoyingly strong possessiveness of toys....I told everyone early on to get an out with toys, and do alot of two toys play...in the F - two males, Falcon is Sch2 and I hear very good things about him - judges and Gottfreid Dildei have said how strong he is, and drivy; the other male Fyurie is a flyball competitor; and in the H's, Havoc is in Zambia Africa and Hawke was lost to distemper at around 2 years old...he was going to be a super competition dog - just so freaky that he got distemper....sad....not a male out of the Tom/Ufo cross who could not be titled with the right circumstances (owners interest/clubs etc)

There were a few Tom grandsons I have seen from other sons - an Eros and a Vito....only the Eros son was different - lower prey drive and extreme extreme dominance and strong aggression....BUT combining Yoshey D. with Putz v h Sevens as the dam's sire was likely to result in that aggression....T Floyd had owned Putz and also told the owner (prior to getting the pup!) that he would get a very strong aggressive dog

FWIW - what I saw, what I have been told - is that Tom/sons are "ordinary" in drives for obedience - good trainers and handlers will get more than mediocres ones as they know how to make the most of what they have. The "biddablity" is not a noted aspect of the Tom dogs - BUT !!!!! bringing them to Ufo, whose ob potential is off the scale actually works as it brings it to a more managable level by damping it down a bit LOL....at least that is my take on it....I got some amazing hunt drive, with super solid nerves - especially in the last litter (Hs) This litter had Vivi Wolfendoble and I like seeing that kennel/line (Ilja) for strength of character too...my other female has this as well...

Hunt drive, and strong protection are something that can come to the table through Tom sons - so much similar to Ufo that this is reinforcing everything there already....

Libido could be an issue with Tom - and with some sons according to my contacts in Belgium....the female had to be dead on ready to get a breeding....

carmspack · 03-03-2011, 06:14 PM

Lee , I have a friend who brought in a Vito son. (does not compare to the Brawnson son he has ) I was looking forward to seeing something great. Instead there is a good natured dog who excells as family pet but could not have much pressure or demands. I would say he is a bit like a faded picture --- .
I think this is not the norm for Vito?

I am fascinated by your UFO x Vivi Wolfendobel combination. What is that pedigree ?
Carmen

wolfstraum · 03-03-2011, 07:02 PM

lol am going to try Csabre to a Brawnson son out of Tula Antverpa.....Ilja on Csabre from Xito....Ilja sire of Ork, sire of Vivi....

the H litter is from a Tom son whose dam was by Gotthilf v d Kine - out of Vivi Wolfendoble....I wanted to use Basha, the Ufo daughter with a Manto Kalhenback /Grief v d Kine dog....figuring I would get stronger dogs even than from the Tom sons....will say there are some tremendous hunt drives in the Tom x Ufo daughters...

Lee

elisabeth_00117 · 03-03-2011, 07:06 PM

Lee - I'm kinda drooling over here... LOL.

GSDElsa · 03-03-2011, 07:13 PM

This is a fun game! I like it...

Elizabeth, we need to think of a new topic to keep everyone on their toes

I need to keep in this section more and out of the chat room where I can get myself into trouble.

Smithie86 · 03-03-2011, 07:31 PM

No issue here with Vito sons that have seen and worked. Very strong on the aggression, very balanced off field with a child.

The Vito gdkids that we had (Hutch son to vito daughter) very strong aggression, careful in placement to working homes only. But, have that cuddle side as well.

03-01-2011, 02:53 PM	#1 (permalink)
GSDElsa Crowned Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Central, NY Posts: 3,706	Tom van't Leefhalhoof I was having fun with the Falk thread, so I decided to do a spin-off with another dog. I've seen a lot of breeders mention Tom in threads recently. Obviously he's not producing anymore, but what did you like about him? Dislike? What were the strongest traits he brought to the table? What types of females did he pair best with? What are his favorite kids that he produced. Grandkids? Where do you think the best place is for him to be in a pedigree? __________________ Justine, mom to: - Elsa - BrightStar Rescue - "Da Pookins" - Medo Aritar Bastet - "The Beast From The East"

03-01-2011, 08:56 PM	#2 (permalink)
MaggieRoseLee The Agility Rocks! Moderator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Bushkill, PA (The Poconos!) Posts: 22,205	__________________ MACH2 Bretta Lee Wildhaus CGC TC TQX Glory B Wildhaus NA, NJ, NF + LOL (still) "*Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much." - Oscar Wilde*

03-03-2011, 02:30 PM	#4 (permalink)
elisabeth_00117 Crowned Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Waterloo, Ontario Posts: 7,246	Great topic Justine! I was going to ask about Tom earlier but totally forgot! There are a few pairings that have Tom in them and I was always seeing his name pop up here and there. VERY curious to hear about him and his "kids". __________________ Battleborn Hundesport Wild Winds Archangel Raphael "Stark", HIC (2009-04-10) Wild Winds Zephyr "Zefra" (2011-04-15) *Beau* 03/08/97 to 06/07/10

03-03-2011, 03:53 PM	#5 (permalink)
wolfstraum Crowned Member Join Date: May 2003 Location: PA Posts: 7,088	Tom was trained by one of, if not THE, best trainers in the world. He got alot of litters as have done his sons and grandsons also owned/trained by the same man. Trainability is a trait that I think goes with this line. I have done 3 litters from Tom sons and my Ufo daughter Basha....what I got was in the most part, more Basha.... All three litters for the most part* were "sporty" - 2 pups in the G had more innate aggression and dominance - but that litter had 7 males!! I also got 3 coats there - which you will get from Tom - the other 2 litters had only 2 males and 6 females...my females were all strong in prey and ball drive, along with very annoyingly strong possessiveness of toys....I told everyone early on to get an out with toys, and do alot of two toys play...in the F - two males, Falcon is Sch2 and I hear very good things about him - judges and Gottfreid Dildei have said how strong he is, and drivy; the other male Fyurie is a flyball competitor; and in the H's, Havoc is in Zambia Africa and Hawke was lost to distemper at around 2 years old...he was going to be a super competition dog - just so freaky that he got distemper....sad....not a male out of the Tom/Ufo cross who could not be titled with the right circumstances (owners interest/clubs etc) There were a few Tom grandsons I have seen from other sons - an Eros and a Vito....only the Eros son was different - lower prey drive and extreme extreme dominance and strong aggression....BUT combining Yoshey D. with Putz v h Sevens as the dam's sire was likely to result in that aggression....T Floyd had owned Putz and also told the owner (prior to getting the pup!) that he would get a very strong aggressive dog FWIW - what I saw, what I have been told - is that Tom/sons are "ordinary" in drives for obedience - good trainers and handlers will get more than mediocres ones as they know how to make the most of what they have. The "biddablity" is not a noted aspect of the Tom dogs - BUT !!!!! bringing them to Ufo, whose ob potential is off the scale actually works as it brings it to a more managable level by damping it down a bit LOL....at least that is my take on it....I got some amazing hunt drive, with super solid nerves - especially in the last litter (Hs) This litter had Vivi Wolfendoble and I like seeing that kennel/line (Ilja) for strength of character too...my other female has this as well... Hunt drive, and strong protection are something that can come to the table through Tom sons - so much similar to Ufo that this is reinforcing everything there already.... Libido could be an issue with Tom - and with some sons according to my contacts in Belgium....the female had to be dead on ready to get a breeding.... __________________ Csabre Sch1, Hexe Sch2, Bengal, Kyra, Kira & Kougar v Wolfstraum ~ Basha Sch3, Ghost Sch3 - Danger Sch1 SAR - ATB/Ret - Kyra, Sch3, Alice Sch1, Kelsey, Fenja Sch3 wolfstraum.net Last edited by wolfstraum; 03-03-2011 at 03:58 PM.

03-03-2011, 07:02 PM	#7 (permalink)
wolfstraum Crowned Member Join Date: May 2003 Location: PA Posts: 7,088	lol am going to try Csabre to a Brawnson son out of Tula Antverpa.....Ilja on Csabre from Xito....Ilja sire of Ork, sire of Vivi.... the H litter is from a Tom son whose dam was by Gotthilf v d Kine - out of Vivi Wolfendoble....I wanted to use Basha, the Ufo daughter with a Manto Kalhenback /Grief v d Kine dog....figuring I would get stronger dogs even than from the Tom sons....will say there are some tremendous hunt drives in the Tom x Ufo daughters... Lee __________________ Csabre Sch1, Hexe Sch2, Bengal, Kyra, Kira & Kougar v Wolfstraum ~ Basha Sch3, Ghost Sch3 - Danger Sch1 SAR - ATB/Ret - Kyra, Sch3, Alice Sch1, Kelsey, Fenja Sch3 wolfstraum.net

03-03-2011, 06:25 AM	#3 (permalink)
JLOCKHART29 Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 90	Interested in where this thread goes. I'm sure Wolfstraum will comment when she see's it as she has used his Gringo son in her breeding program. She also found my Tom both sides great grandson I imported last summer out of a Gringo daughter and a Vito son. So far except for a 3 week "stupid" period he went threw a couple weeks ago he has truly been amazing. There was a thread a while ago about over the top ball drive which was the case in this dog. I could use a tug but a ball would just get you that glazed over eye look where the lights were on but nobody was home! Lol Since he has come threw that "stage" he has really settled. The drive is still there but much more controlled and am even using a a ball again some. Auron ze Stribrneho Kamene - German shepherd dog

03-03-2011, 06:14 PM	#6 (permalink)
carmspack Knighted Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: ontario - Posts: 3,324	Lee , I have a friend who brought in a Vito son. (does not compare to the Brawnson son he has ) I was looking forward to seeing something great. Instead there is a good natured dog who excells as family pet but could not have much pressure or demands. I would say he is a bit like a faded picture --- . I think this is not the norm for Vito? I am fascinated by your UFO x Vivi Wolfendobel combination. What is that pedigree ? Carmen

03-03-2011, 07:06 PM	#8 (permalink)
elisabeth_00117 Crowned Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Waterloo, Ontario Posts: 7,246	Lee - I'm kinda drooling over here... LOL. __________________ Battleborn Hundesport Wild Winds Archangel Raphael "Stark", HIC (2009-04-10) Wild Winds Zephyr "Zefra" (2011-04-15) *Beau* 03/08/97 to 06/07/10

03-03-2011, 07:13 PM	#9 (permalink)
GSDElsa Crowned Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Central, NY Posts: 3,706	This is a fun game! I like it... Elizabeth, we need to think of a new topic to keep everyone on their toes I need to keep in this section more and out of the chat room where I can get myself into trouble. __________________ Justine, mom to: - Elsa - BrightStar Rescue - "Da Pookins" - Medo Aritar Bastet - "The Beast From The East"

03-03-2011, 07:31 PM	#10 (permalink)
Smithie86 Crowned Member Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Nashville, TN and Budapest HU Posts: 3,807	No issue here with Vito sons that have seen and worked. Very strong on the aggression, very balanced off field with a child. The Vito gdkids that we had (Hutch son to vito daughter) very strong aggression, careful in placement to working homes only. But, have that cuddle side as well. __________________ Sue www.k9imports.com V KK1 Molinari Enzo SCH3,IPO3,VK3,FH(WUSVx3, FCIx4) HOT KK1 Frodo v Biezenhoeve SCH3,IPO3,HPO3 (WUSVx2, FCIx2)HOT KK1 Tarnoki-Felvigyazo Quamatz SCH3 (HOT), KK1 Griff v Tajgetosz SCH3(BHOT)

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