Based on her Pedigree....

[Northern GSDs]

Just curious - my "feeling" won't be hurt if no-one responds (ok...maybe a little ) but I would be very interested to hear some perspectives from pedigree-knowleagable folk regarding what types of traits/strengths/weaknesses one might expect to see with this pedigree (Jax vom Kiebitzende) and more importantly why.

I am a very objective person (almost to a fault) so don't be shy in your assessment - wondering how much of what I may see/believe of her may relate to her pedigree. She will be 5 in May - I am well aware that nature & nuture both play a part in this.

Anyone game?

[gagsd]

Well, not much from me on particulars, but to my beginninger's eyes, it appears a very nice pedigree. With Manto/Lord on top (also Queen R.) and then Crok on the bottom and also Pike.
I am not really sure why I like it, but the pedigree "feels" very nice and blanced.
I see dogs that are said to bring in aggession, drive, good grips, good nose/hunt, and health (Gildo is there as well).

[GSDElsa]

Ditto on not knowing much here, either. But it does seem like a nice pedigree.

Lord, Mink, and the "U" litter Kirschetal all are known for bringing good hunt drive. Grief was a showline that was popular with the working line folk to add into the pedigree. Arek seems to bring in good aggression.

[gagsd]

GSDElsa... I have never heard Grief considered a show dog. Why do you consider him such?

I have herd that he can bring in very quick-trigger-aggression, particularly through Sagus, so it is good to see him balanced with dogs with higher thresholds.

[GSDElsa]

Ah! I can't type thing while I'm watching TV and listening to my husband talk...I meant to type that I"ve heard that some SHOWLINE people (or so I've read) have added him in to their lines as the "working" component...not that he was showline.....oh my mind, fingers, and multi-tasking do not go well together.

[Northern GSDs]

Thanks to everyone for your responses. I am finding myself nodding at many of the comments made thus far. Hunt Drive - yes.

Grip wise, this is something that training has created issues in.

I have herd that he can bring in very quick-trigger-aggression

A-ha! There is one of the comments I was wondering about. I would have to agree with the quick trigger aggression. I would also have to say that I think this is one of the biggest things I am struggling with with her in the protection phase.

Now another question I am wondering. Would you see this as a dog that would have to potential to get "locked" in defense and/or locked in a drive? It sounds a bit odd but at training last week we did talk about how it was interesting that while Jax does have high prey drive, she seems to be able to switch this off much easier than when she goes into defense. Now this could be related to alot of the work I have done with her on drive capping (eg in OB) but

Now the comment about balancing of the drives really interests me. What I see in this dog is low thresholds. High level of reactivity. It takes little to "turn her on". She has been this way since I got her at 6 months of age. Her one sibling is the same in this regard...I do now know about the other siblings although I would love to find out.

Other things "I" see include very biddable in OB and wanting to please. She has really been a wonderful dog to train in OB though I have had some hair-pulling along the way due to her drives.

Tracking is really very good as well although we have had some setbacks and progresses along the way (mostly due my handling).

Handler sensitive but not in any way "soft" to others (will not tolerate a correction from anyone else but myself) - recovers quickly from corrections despite the handler sensitivity (again, I think training likely has much to do with this). Not really responsive to corrections during protection desite the handler sensitivity. Corrections ramp her up more.

I know we all have different opinions as to what constitutes "sharpness". I see this dog as being "sharp". Curious as to which dogs, if any, would have brought this element to the table.

Protection work is not easy with this dog. Partly because we have not had much in the way of resources for helper work over the last year (club is working at this very hard this year to change this and we have a good plan underway) but mostly because this dog has a hard time capping in this phase and she is quick to react to stimuli.

Thanks again for the comments! If anyone has anything else to contribute, I would love to hear it!

[lhczth]

I often compare Greif with Fero. Both dogs needed to be bred to the right females to maintain balance. I had a Greif granddaughter, a female linebred on Greif 4,4-4 and also trained with a Greif son and several grandkids and a great grandkid. My two females were far from sharp, but the rest of their pedigrees brought balance to the lines. The Greif son was not out of the strongest female and I did not like what he produced, though, he, himself, was not a bad dog.

Greif had excellent structure for his day. He carried old working blood through his dam. If he was used by showline breeders he didn't produce anything of significance.