belgium working lines

pets4life · 02-22-2011, 12:14 AM

From a few people i hear that a lot of these lines are driven like a mal? IS that true or just exageration?

Does anyone here own a belgium dog? if so what is he/she like?

Tim Connell · 02-22-2011, 12:55 AM

Comparing a GSD to a Malinois is a little bit of a stretch, in my opinion, but you will see that many Euro kennels breed for something a little different than some are accustomed to seeing...but suffice it to say that depending on the breeding, some of the Belgian (and other countries) bred dogs are athletic, solid, aggressive, and drivey...I'm likely going to be breeding Baghira shortly to a dog that is an import from a kennel in Belgium, and that dog in particular has been an excellent producer, and brings drive, and natural aggression, which is what I want from this litter. There are some strong dogs in the pedigree, including some KNPV titled dogs. Baghira is a strong, masculine female, who is a little stubborn, who shows nice drive, nerve, and solid performance. Should be a great match. Her second breeding (with me) down the road will be a strong one as well, likely to Max v. Tiekerhook...it's my intent to breed for a strong working Shepherd dog...the way they should be, in my eyes.

elisabeth_00117 · 02-22-2011, 01:07 AM

Tim, do you think you could PM me the mating pedigree of Baghira and the dog you intend to breed her too?

I am currently looking at these lines for my next and am very interested/curious.

I would greatly appreciate it.

carmspack · 02-22-2011, 01:20 AM

I imported a male and female from Belgium. They are dogs . They are dogs from Belgium. It matters more what the intentions of the kennel is when they create the combination , then the country that the dog comes from. Griswald van Xazziam - German shepherd dog
I was after a pedigree that was really solid in strong natural tracking, and strong old heritage herding lines.
So far I've had good litters -- just put a male into LE - currently in training with excellent reports for specialized bomb/explosives .
Second litter had some tough cookies -- . Is it because of the "Belgian" sire . No , not entirely. It is because no matter where a dog comes from I always select for the same type.
Now here is a totally different slant to things.
Countries outside of the SV are not as concerned with the big business of "show lines" , tend to concentrate more on the working aspect .
Carmen
Carmspack Working German Shepherd Dogs

elisabeth_00117 · 02-22-2011, 01:30 AM

Carmen, I liked the pedigree you linked.

I'm surprised, but I actually recognize some of the dogs in there!

Asko, Dino and Haska on the bottom half are dogs I am seeing in a few others that I am looking at.

I also recognize Castro and Chip from a few I have seen too.

What was produced in your litter - is that typical of these dogs? Would you think they would excel in sport or are these dogs more of a 'harder' dog for lets say what you do in LE?

Now, this is coming from a total newbie - so please bear with me as I try to understand - but although these dogs are "more real" and not as sporty and not the typical dogs you see excelling in the sport world do you think they could still place well? Or are they "too much" for that venue?

carmspack · 02-22-2011, 01:54 AM

harder does not mean stubborn or resistant to taking direction . Those are not my ideal. A "hard" dog is a dog with rock solid nerves . Goes through life without any problems , is neutral in public, is resilient, forgiving , determined . When needed they respond and will rise to the pressure .
Here is the pedigree of the male who just went into service Carmspack Silva - German shepherd dog
"Power's " brother is the k9 for Kawartha Lakes . Case has produced other PD's .
Here is another pup from Gris (Belgian import) BIRCH-BARK HILL
In that combination the dam was a ddr lines bred german import Airdrie Hill vom Schmetterling - German shepherd dog

Can they do schutzhund , absolutely. I would train them less routine though . Less of the conditioned response . You don't have to create the drives or condition them with routine . that's a whole huge topic all on its own . would be interesting .

Carmen
Carmspack Working German Shepherd Dogs

elisabeth_00117 · 02-22-2011, 01:58 AM

Hmm... I'm intrigued.

Thanks for that - very much appreciated.

Going to take a look at those links carefully, thank you.

pets4life · 02-22-2011, 02:08 AM

how about the ones with losh in front of their names does that mean anything?

BlackthornGSD · 02-22-2011, 02:45 AM

LOSH is just the acronym for the Belgian registry. Like SZ is for the German registry.

cliffson1 · 02-22-2011, 08:42 AM

Right now the top Belgian dogs and trainers are very successful in the international sport world. As such their dogs are well known and these lines are being used a lot by competition breeders. There are some similar traits and types from these dogs and breeders, so as Carmen says it is more the intent of the kennel than just the national line. There are kennels from Belgium that produce very successful KNPV dogs and Law enforcement dogs in both scent work and patrol work. It all goes back to knowing the lines and seeing dogs work to assess these drives and capabilities for your point of reference.

02-22-2011, 12:14 AM	#1 (permalink)
pets4life Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 465	belgium working lines From a few people i hear that a lot of these lines are driven like a mal? IS that true or just exageration? Does anyone here own a belgium dog? if so what is he/she like? Last edited by pets4life; 02-22-2011 at 12:23 AM.

02-22-2011, 12:55 AM	#2 (permalink)
Tim Connell Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: New Hampshire, USA Posts: 176	Comparing a GSD to a Malinois is a little bit of a stretch, in my opinion, but you will see that many Euro kennels breed for something a little different than some are accustomed to seeing...but suffice it to say that depending on the breeding, some of the Belgian (and other countries) bred dogs are athletic, solid, aggressive, and drivey...I'm likely going to be breeding Baghira shortly to a dog that is an import from a kennel in Belgium, and that dog in particular has been an excellent producer, and brings drive, and natural aggression, which is what I want from this litter. There are some strong dogs in the pedigree, including some KNPV titled dogs. Baghira is a strong, masculine female, who is a little stubborn, who shows nice drive, nerve, and solid performance. Should be a great match. Her second breeding (with me) down the road will be a strong one as well, likely to Max v. Tiekerhook...it's my intent to breed for a strong working Shepherd dog...the way they should be, in my eyes. __________________ Valk Police K9/Explosive Detection Baghira Sch II kkl1 Makker CGC, BH, TT K9 in training Flasch FR, BH, TT www.vandesterke.com Last edited by Tim Connell; 02-22-2011 at 01:02 AM.

02-22-2011, 01:07 AM	#3 (permalink)
elisabeth_00117 Crowned Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Waterloo, Ontario Posts: 7,246	Tim, do you think you could PM me the mating pedigree of Baghira and the dog you intend to breed her too? I am currently looking at these lines for my next and am very interested/curious. I would greatly appreciate it. __________________ Battleborn Hundesport Wild Winds Archangel Raphael "Stark", HIC (2009-04-10) Wild Winds Zephyr "Zefra" (2011-04-15) *Beau* 03/08/97 to 06/07/10

02-22-2011, 01:30 AM	#5 (permalink)
elisabeth_00117 Crowned Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Waterloo, Ontario Posts: 7,246	Carmen, I liked the pedigree you linked. I'm surprised, but I actually recognize some of the dogs in there! Asko, Dino and Haska on the bottom half are dogs I am seeing in a few others that I am looking at. I also recognize Castro and Chip from a few I have seen too. What was produced in your litter - is that typical of these dogs? Would you think they would excel in sport or are these dogs more of a 'harder' dog for lets say what you do in LE? Now, this is coming from a total newbie - so please bear with me as I try to understand - but although these dogs are "more real" and not as sporty and not the typical dogs you see excelling in the sport world do you think they could still place well? Or are they "too much" for that venue? __________________ Battleborn Hundesport Wild Winds Archangel Raphael "Stark", HIC (2009-04-10) Wild Winds Zephyr "Zefra" (2011-04-15) *Beau* 03/08/97 to 06/07/10

02-22-2011, 01:58 AM	#7 (permalink)
elisabeth_00117 Crowned Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Waterloo, Ontario Posts: 7,246	Hmm... I'm intrigued. Thanks for that - very much appreciated. Going to take a look at those links carefully, thank you. __________________ Battleborn Hundesport Wild Winds Archangel Raphael "Stark", HIC (2009-04-10) Wild Winds Zephyr "Zefra" (2011-04-15) *Beau* 03/08/97 to 06/07/10

02-22-2011, 01:20 AM	#4 (permalink)
carmspack Knighted Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: ontario - Posts: 3,324	I imported a male and female from Belgium. They are dogs . They are dogs from Belgium. It matters more what the intentions of the kennel is when they create the combination , then the country that the dog comes from. Griswald van Xazziam - German shepherd dog I was after a pedigree that was really solid in strong natural tracking, and strong old heritage herding lines. So far I've had good litters -- just put a male into LE - currently in training with excellent reports for specialized bomb/explosives . Second litter had some tough cookies -- . Is it because of the "Belgian" sire . No , not entirely. It is because no matter where a dog comes from I always select for the same type. Now here is a totally different slant to things. Countries outside of the SV are not as concerned with the big business of "show lines" , tend to concentrate more on the working aspect . Carmen Carmspack Working German Shepherd Dogs

02-22-2011, 01:54 AM	#6 (permalink)
carmspack Knighted Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: ontario - Posts: 3,324	harder does not mean stubborn or resistant to taking direction . Those are not my ideal. A "hard" dog is a dog with rock solid nerves . Goes through life without any problems , is neutral in public, is resilient, forgiving , determined . When needed they respond and will rise to the pressure . Here is the pedigree of the male who just went into service Carmspack Silva - German shepherd dog "Power's " brother is the k9 for Kawartha Lakes . Case has produced other PD's . Here is another pup from Gris (Belgian import) BIRCH-BARK HILL In that combination the dam was a ddr lines bred german import Airdrie Hill vom Schmetterling - German shepherd dog Can they do schutzhund , absolutely. I would train them less routine though . Less of the conditioned response . You don't have to create the drives or condition them with routine . that's a whole huge topic all on its own . would be interesting . Carmen Carmspack Working German Shepherd Dogs

02-22-2011, 02:08 AM	#8 (permalink)
pets4life Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 465	how about the ones with losh in front of their names does that mean anything?

02-22-2011, 02:45 AM	#9 (permalink)
BlackthornGSD Elite Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Central Virginia Posts: 1,094	LOSH is just the acronym for the Belgian registry. Like SZ is for the German registry. __________________ Christine Blackthorn Working German Shepherds

02-22-2011, 08:42 AM	#10 (permalink)
cliffson1 Knighted Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 2,929	Right now the top Belgian dogs and trainers are very successful in the international sport world. As such their dogs are well known and these lines are being used a lot by competition breeders. There are some similar traits and types from these dogs and breeders, so as Carmen says it is more the intent of the kennel than just the national line. There are kennels from Belgium that produce very successful KNPV dogs and Law enforcement dogs in both scent work and patrol work. It all goes back to knowing the lines and seeing dogs work to assess these drives and capabilities for your point of reference.

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