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Old 02-09-2013, 08:24 PM   #21 (permalink)
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I never see changes from s/n in the very short coats, just the longer coats. My first dog was long haired. I had him for 4 years (good food) and it was a beautiful soft natural curly coat like a Lakenois. I had him neutered because of his over the top sex drive and the coat did change but not his diet. It became dull and longer. I don't have the answers for this, just observations. No vet seems to know or notice either. By the way, I consider myself sane
Hopefully someone will shed some light on this topic.
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Old 02-09-2013, 09:22 PM   #22 (permalink)
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You can tell by the long hair on her tail; not as bushy as with intact dogs.
Yeah. Spayed/neutered dogs' hair gets really long, in longhaired breeds. Intact dogs have a coarser, harder coat which seems to stop at a certain length; therefore, their tails will appear thicker, rather than longer. With S/N the hair seems to just keep growing and growing. So when you see a dog with extremely long tail hair like in that photo, you can bet it's spayed/neutered.

It's one of the good things about leaving dogs intact--they tend to have better coat texture (not sure if that outweighs the drawbacks of leaving dogs intact.) In fact, even if you could show S/N dogs in AKC conformation, you might not even want to try with some breeds, because the coat change can be dramatic. I'm thinking in particular about Terriers, Goldens, Setters, and Collies. The guard coat gets softer and longer, and as I said, they tend to grow "fuzz" on the short parts of their coat like the legs and the head. This fuzz can be a real bitch to get rid of, if you'll pardon the pun. You have to strip or pluck it out, and it grows back almost immediately.

You don't really see this frustrating fuzz in intact dogs. I'm not sure why this is, but I'm guessing it must have something to do with the sex hormones. I know Estrogen makes hair and nails stronger, though I'm not sure what role it would play in male dogs.

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Old 02-09-2013, 09:27 PM   #23 (permalink)
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I never see changes from s/n in the very short coats, just the longer coats.
Right, the very short coats don't seem to be affected as much. Just the longer coats. And it varies from dog to dog, some might change a lot, others very little.
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Old 02-09-2013, 09:32 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Except the dog in question is a "partial" spay, right?
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Old 02-09-2013, 09:37 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Well her hair is long and soft but she doesn't have "fuzz" on the shorter parts of her body.
Her paws are just like a Collie's, I do have to trim the bottoms because the hair grows long in between her toes, but I don't think that's a s/n issue?

I don't think the trade-off would be worth it- I'd rather have a longer haired, soft dog than one dying of mammary tumors!
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Old 02-10-2013, 10:37 AM   #26 (permalink)
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Except the dog in question is a "partial" spay, right?
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Soooo....guess it's not the hormone thing?

Anesthesia can do it.
Sorry for the delay in replying. The time difference over here can be annoying sometimes!

Yes, Juno had a partial spay. Her ovaries were taken, but her uterus was left. According to the vet, this was less invasive overall as the uterus will shrink over time on it's own and there is no risk of pyro since the hormones are no longer being produced.

So it could be a lack of hormones problem I suppose?

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Spayed females and neutered males tend to have softer coats. They sometimes get these fuzzy hairs, almost like long undercoat hairs, on places like the legs. The guard coat is less coarse and there can be more undercoat. We call it "neuter coat" or "spay coat".

A sudden blowing of coat like the OP's dog is having can happen in mid-winter. I've been seeing lots of dogs blowing coat, and have been for the past month or so. Any stressor could cause it as well, possibly the anesthetic or the surgery itself.

OP, you can expect your dog to grow all her undercoat back and then some!
I really hope she does. She didn't have much of an undercoat to begin with. (Nothing like Bowsers parents have! They are WGSL, and have very "fluffy" coats compared to Juno's more sleek, rather short hair.) So her blowing what little bit of undercoat she DID have has made her coat look very thin. A lot of her long guard hairs are coming out too - is that normal? They are coming out overall...not in patches or anything.
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Old 02-10-2013, 11:04 AM   #27 (permalink)
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WD is blowing his coat now and he is in the wet NW and is an intact male.
If I ever get a female dog I will consider a part spay; remove the uterus and keep the ovaries to maintain her hormone levels and the luster of the coat.
Yeah, I debated about this one for a LOOOONG time and did a lot of research beforehand. I tracked down the only vet in Ireland willing to do a laparo spay after months of looking, and I was gonna opt for uterus only removal too....but I found for our situation, the cons outweighed the pros overall. My vet was willing to do this for me, but gave me a lot of sound advice before I finally decided to go for ovaries only removal in the end.

With uterus only removal, the dog still goes into heat and will attract males - but there will be no bleeding. There is still a risk of developing ovarian cancer and mammary cancer/tumours due to the hormone production.

With the ovaries only removal, there are no hormones so pyometra no longer is an issue, and risks of cancers/tumours drop as well. And of course, no heats either. However you do run the risk of a lacklustre coat it would seem.

The vet told me that any major growth and development, especially in the case of a female, would come from the dog's pituitary gland, rather than the ovaries themselves. (Actually, I'd be curious what others here on the forum think of that logic. I'm a bit on the fence with that one.)

If I ever got another female, I would probably still do the Ovaries only removal, providing I allowed enough time to pass for her to develop before hand. (ie: wait for at least two heats and between 15-18 months old. Up to 2 years if possible.)
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Old 02-10-2013, 01:37 PM   #28 (permalink)
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Since ovaries produce the sex hormones I would still expect the coat to change like a complete spay would.
The only problem I can foresee by leaving the ovaries is the possibility of false pregnancy and another surgery to remove the ovaries if this continues to be a problem. Having an intact male with a partially spayed dog like that, I am sure he'll breed her but that's not my main concern.
My Malinois form the past got aggressive after being spayed so I really wouldn't know how to go about it. But I have a few more years to figure this out. Maybe I'll run into a nice mutt from the shelter, who knows....
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Old 02-10-2013, 02:28 PM   #29 (permalink)
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I really hope she does. She didn't have much of an undercoat to begin with. (Nothing like Bowsers parents have! They are WGSL, and have very "fluffy" coats compared to Juno's more sleek, rather short hair.) So her blowing what little bit of undercoat she DID have has made her coat look very thin. A lot of her long guard hairs are coming out too - is that normal? They are coming out overall...not in patches or anything.
Yes, it's normal. If it was coming out in patches, I'd worry about something else going on.

Just curious, do you know if she was close to being in heat when she had the surgery? It's very common for females to lose a ton of coat when they come into heat. Undercoat, guard coat, everything goes. They sometimes even end up with rat tails! It is incredibly frustrating for people trying to show their dogs, trying to work around heat cycles and coat changes.

Don't worry. Her coat will come back. Once spayed, you just have to worry about normal everyday and seasonal shedding, and it's unlikely you will ever see her lose her entire coat like you are right now.
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Old 02-10-2013, 02:52 PM   #30 (permalink)
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Well her hair is long and soft but she doesn't have "fuzz" on the shorter parts of her body.
Her paws are just like a Collie's, I do have to trim the bottoms because the hair grows long in between her toes, but I don't think that's a s/n issue?

I don't think the trade-off would be worth it- I'd rather have a longer haired, soft dog than one dying of mammary tumors!
Me too! Their coat takes a bit more maintenance, but I'd rather deal with that than with having an intact bitch coming in and out of season all the time, and the danger of pyometra/cancer. No thanks!

I've always gritted my teeth and let my females go through at least one heat before spaying, but it's something I hate having to do, and I don't recommend it to the average pet owner.

Not all altered dogs get the "fuzz" I was talking about, a lot depends on their genetics for coat type and texture. Unfortunately, I can't find a photo that really illustrates it well.
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