Anti Venom Vaccination - Page 3 - German Shepherd Dog Forums

Increase font size: 0, 10, 25, 50%

GermanShepherds.com is the premier German Shepherd Forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see the above ads.
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 01-31-2013, 01:46 AM   #21 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
4score's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Auburn, CA
Posts: 268
Default

We also have many rattle snakes here. Several people have gone to the aversion training and have reported great results. After finding a few babies in the yard last season, I'm thinking of trying the training next time I see it offered locally. Good luck with managing your problem there!
4score is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 01-31-2013, 07:06 AM   #22 (permalink)
Master Member
 
Mooch's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Australia
Posts: 920
Default

I don't know how quickly Rattle Snake poison works but we have some (lol it seems like all of them) of the most poisonous snakes here in Australia.
There's no vaccination and unless you actually see your dog getting bitten there's not much chance it will survive. I hate summer with a passion, I'm so worried about snake bite but there's nothing can really do - snakes are just pat of living in the country

Has anyone got any experience with the whole avoidance training? How does it work?
Mooch is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-31-2013, 09:45 AM   #23 (permalink)
Knighted Member
 
Bear GSD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Boulder, Colorado
Posts: 2,265
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RowdyDogs View Post
It's very effective if you do it right, even with dogs who have a strong prey drive. The hardest part is finding a trainer who has snakes!

You mean they train snake aversion classes using real snakes!!??

I am pretty sure there are trainers who do it up in your general area. I have friends in Fort Collins who have done it with their dogs, although I think they both had to drive a bit. I want to say there's someone in Longmont? If you'd like, I could see if I can get a name from one of my friends and PM you with it.

RowdyDogs, If you could PM the name of a trainer that does it, Longmont is pretty close to me and Ft. Collins is a ways but not that bad.

What do SAR people do in that situation of a dog getting bitten and you're a couple of hours away from help? Do you carry the anti-venom with you?
Thanks for your input
__________________
Bear GSD 10/16/11
Elsa GSD 12/23/03 - 11/10/11
Bear GSD is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-31-2013, 10:09 AM   #24 (permalink)
Crowned Member
 
Lilie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: South Texas
Posts: 11,128
Default

They do utilize real, live snakes. One trainer I spoke to uses a snake that is provided by a man who milks them of their venom. The snake's mouth is secured shut. I didn't ask how, I used my imagination. The actual live snake is used the last two days of training.

I was also told that some trainers de-fang the snake for training and then they kill it when it is no longer needed. This class is a one day class.

I have a friend that has a dog that went through the one day class, and then takes it to a refresher course every year. This specific dog won't even go near a garden hose left in the yard.

I think it's worth mentioning that this type of class shouldn't be taken by young dogs. My breeder told me to wait till after my dog was over a year old.

Also, some dogs have an adverse reaction to this type of training. My Lacy's sire reacted "like a coyote in a trap" and came up the leash when it was hit with the shock collar. It didn't recognize the snake as the object, but the handler (the trainer).
__________________
Hondo Von Dopplet L Bauernhof "Hondo"- GSD
Lilie's Tug McGraw "Tug" - Golden Retriever
Maggie - Mini Dachshund (Rescue)
Lonestar Pivo - Texas Blue Lacy
Ashe - Barn Cat
Katie / APHA
Lilie is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-31-2013, 10:16 AM   #25 (permalink)
Knighted Member
 
Bear GSD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Boulder, Colorado
Posts: 2,265
Default

Lilie, Are you saying that they train using E Collars? Is this the only way they train?
__________________
Bear GSD 10/16/11
Elsa GSD 12/23/03 - 11/10/11
Bear GSD is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-31-2013, 10:24 AM   #26 (permalink)
Crowned Member
 
Lilie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: South Texas
Posts: 11,128
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bear GSD View Post
Lilie, Are you saying that they train using E Collars? Is this the only way they train?
Yes, I'm speaking of shock collars. I don't know if there is another way to train them. I suspect there would be. But I haven't spoken to anybody who uses any other method.
__________________
Hondo Von Dopplet L Bauernhof "Hondo"- GSD
Lilie's Tug McGraw "Tug" - Golden Retriever
Maggie - Mini Dachshund (Rescue)
Lonestar Pivo - Texas Blue Lacy
Ashe - Barn Cat
Katie / APHA
Lilie is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-31-2013, 10:33 AM   #27 (permalink)
Knighted Member
 
Bear GSD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Boulder, Colorado
Posts: 2,265
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lilie View Post
Yes, I'm speaking of shock collars. I don't know if there is another way to train them. I suspect there would be. But I haven't spoken to anybody who uses any other method.
So if they are trained using the shock collar then do they always have to wear it out? Or is it just for conditioning and when the class is over they can go back to wearing only a regular collar?
__________________
Bear GSD 10/16/11
Elsa GSD 12/23/03 - 11/10/11
Bear GSD is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-31-2013, 10:41 AM   #28 (permalink)
Crowned Member
 
Lilie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: South Texas
Posts: 11,128
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bear GSD View Post
So if they are trained using the shock collar then do they always have to wear it out? Or is it just for conditioning and when the class is over they can go back to wearing only a regular collar?
Just for conditioning. I 'suspect' that they hit the dog pretty hard to leave a lasting impression. I actually had the chance to audited a one day class. It was pretty harsh. If that was my only option, I'd do it. But, for me, I'll take my dogs to the longer class.

I admit, it looked cruel. And was hard to watch. But - I'd rather make a impact on my dog in a controlled environment, then to have any of my dogs get killed by a snake. I take my dogs to places where it could take up to an hour just to get off the property.
__________________
Hondo Von Dopplet L Bauernhof "Hondo"- GSD
Lilie's Tug McGraw "Tug" - Golden Retriever
Maggie - Mini Dachshund (Rescue)
Lonestar Pivo - Texas Blue Lacy
Ashe - Barn Cat
Katie / APHA
Lilie is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-01-2013, 08:11 PM   #29 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
RowdyDogs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Albuquerque, NM
Posts: 458
Default

Yeah, they use real snakes but as Lilie said, the snakes' mouths are secured shut. Dogs don't generalize very well so you kind of have to use real snakes!

The training I did had a combination of an e-collar and then positive reinforcement for ignoring the snake. It's actually been really easy with all my dogs, as mine have had a natural aversion to snakes that is just tested/reinforced with the training...not sure why they are, but I've just been lucky. Some dogs at our classes have taken a lot more training.

You train initially with an e-collar, but then you test it without the collar. A good trainer will be really thorough about that. There are other methods of training that don't include an e-collar, but I think it's the easiest and most humane that I'm aware of. Since snakes are really appealing to dogs, you have to teach the dog that going after them is unpleasant, basically.

The training I went to wasn't particularly harsh. The collars were adjusted for each dog and the shock wasn't overdone. I'm sure it varies a lot from trainer to trainer, though, just like anything.

I sent an email to my friends in CO and will PM you when I hear back from them.

As far as SAR stuff, we don't carry anti-venom or anything. We learn about first aid and how to treat a rattlesnake bite, and we do rattlesnake aversion training as a team. Plus, the dogs are either in your sight or they're working and hopefully ignore distractions from snakes.

Really though it isn't something I worry about that much. If you're in control of your dog, the odds of any given encounter resulting in a bite are minimal. The kind of rattlers you have in CO would rather just scare off your dog rather than bite, so unless you let the dog antagonize the snake, a bite is really unlikely. Even if a bite does occur, the majority of bites by western diamondbacks (which are most of what you'll encounter in CO) dry bites where very little to no venom is injected. Of course the puncture wounds alone still require a vet visit, but it's not immediately life-threatening in the way a venomous bite is. Of course that's not to say rattlesnakes aren't dangerous, but I don't think most dogs necessarily need aversion training to be safe. The only reason I got it with my dogs is that I was living in an area where there were tons of snakes (seriously, on a half-hour hack I once counted 37 rattlers), and I was working horses so my dogs were out with me but I wasn't necessarily paying close attention to them. If I was just hiking with dogs, I personally wouldn't worry about getting the training or the vaccine. JMO of course.
__________________
The rowdy dogs:
Hector-2 y/o GSD (mix?) rescue
Scooter-12 y/o ACD/Border Collie mix
Bandit-8 y/o ACD
Wooby-14 y/o ACD
Abutiu "Abi"-ACD puppy and hopeful future SAR dog!

Last edited by RowdyDogs; 02-01-2013 at 08:13 PM.
RowdyDogs is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-01-2013, 09:29 PM   #30 (permalink)
Knighted Member
 
Bear GSD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Boulder, Colorado
Posts: 2,265
Default

Rowdydogs, thanks for the response. I didn't realize what went into snake aversion training,
I'm not sure I could go through it with my dog. I think I might want to sit in on one and decide whether it is something I could do.
I've decided to pass on the vaccine, so I guess I'll have to wait and hope the snake season is not too bad.
The snakes by me are pretty bad, my house faces open space with a prairie dog colony, so they are around everywhere, not just the trails. There have been quite a few dogs that have been bitten and a few that have died.
I don't let Bear off leash anywhere except the dog park because of it.
Thanks for all if the information, it was very helpful!
I hope that things are going well with Abi!
__________________
Bear GSD 10/16/11
Elsa GSD 12/23/03 - 11/10/11
Bear GSD is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the German Shepherd Dog Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:37 PM.



Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
SEO by vBSEO 3.3.2
PetGuide.com
Basset.net DobermanTalk.com GoldenRetrieverForum.com OurBeagleWorld.com
BoxerForums.com DogForums.com GoPitbull.com PoodleForum.com
BulldogBreeds.com FishForums.com HavaneseForum.com SpoiledMaltese.com
CatForum.com GermanShepherds.com Labradoodle-dogs.net YorkieForum.com
Chihuahua-People.com RetrieverBreeds.com