Anti Venom Vaccination

[4score]

We also have many rattle snakes here. Several people have gone to the aversion training and have reported great results. After finding a few babies in the yard last season, I'm thinking of trying the training next time I see it offered locally. Good luck with managing your problem there!

[Mooch]

I don't know how quickly Rattle Snake poison works but we have some (lol it seems like all of them) of the most poisonous snakes here in Australia.
There's no vaccination and unless you actually see your dog getting bitten there's not much chance it will survive. I hate summer with a passion, I'm so worried about snake bite but there's nothing can really do - snakes are just pat of living in the country

Has anyone got any experience with the whole avoidance training? How does it work?

[Bear GSD]

Originally Posted by RowdyDogs

It's very effective if you do it right, even with dogs who have a strong prey drive. The hardest part is finding a trainer who has snakes!

You mean they train snake aversion classes using real snakes!!??

I am pretty sure there are trainers who do it up in your general area. I have friends in Fort Collins who have done it with their dogs, although I think they both had to drive a bit. I want to say there's someone in Longmont? If you'd like, I could see if I can get a name from one of my friends and PM you with it.

RowdyDogs, If you could PM the name of a trainer that does it, Longmont is pretty close to me and Ft. Collins is a ways but not that bad.

What do SAR people do in that situation of a dog getting bitten and you're a couple of hours away from help? Do you carry the anti-venom with you?
Thanks for your input

[Lilie]

They do utilize real, live snakes. One trainer I spoke to uses a snake that is provided by a man who milks them of their venom. The snake's mouth is secured shut. I didn't ask how, I used my imagination. The actual live snake is used the last two days of training.

I was also told that some trainers de-fang the snake for training and then they kill it when it is no longer needed. This class is a one day class.

I have a friend that has a dog that went through the one day class, and then takes it to a refresher course every year. This specific dog won't even go near a garden hose left in the yard.

I think it's worth mentioning that this type of class shouldn't be taken by young dogs. My breeder told me to wait till after my dog was over a year old.

Also, some dogs have an adverse reaction to this type of training. My Lacy's sire reacted "like a coyote in a trap" and came up the leash when it was hit with the shock collar. It didn't recognize the snake as the object, but the handler (the trainer).

[Bear GSD]

Lilie, Are you saying that they train using E Collars? Is this the only way they train?

[Lilie]

Originally Posted by Bear GSD

Lilie, Are you saying that they train using E Collars? Is this the only way they train?

Yes, I'm speaking of shock collars. I don't know if there is another way to train them. I suspect there would be. But I haven't spoken to anybody who uses any other method.

[Bear GSD]

Originally Posted by Lilie

Yes, I'm speaking of shock collars. I don't know if there is another way to train them. I suspect there would be. But I haven't spoken to anybody who uses any other method.

So if they are trained using the shock collar then do they always have to wear it out? Or is it just for conditioning and when the class is over they can go back to wearing only a regular collar?

[Lilie]

Originally Posted by Bear GSD

So if they are trained using the shock collar then do they always have to wear it out? Or is it just for conditioning and when the class is over they can go back to wearing only a regular collar?

Just for conditioning. I 'suspect' that they hit the dog pretty hard to leave a lasting impression. I actually had the chance to audited a one day class. It was pretty harsh. If that was my only option, I'd do it. But, for me, I'll take my dogs to the longer class.

I admit, it looked cruel. And was hard to watch. But - I'd rather make a impact on my dog in a controlled environment, then to have any of my dogs get killed by a snake. I take my dogs to places where it could take up to an hour just to get off the property.

[RowdyDogs]

Yeah, they use real snakes but as Lilie said, the snakes' mouths are secured shut. Dogs don't generalize very well so you kind of have to use real snakes!

The training I did had a combination of an e-collar and then positive reinforcement for ignoring the snake. It's actually been really easy with all my dogs, as mine have had a natural aversion to snakes that is just tested/reinforced with the training...not sure why they are, but I've just been lucky. Some dogs at our classes have taken a lot more training.

You train initially with an e-collar, but then you test it without the collar. A good trainer will be really thorough about that. There are other methods of training that don't include an e-collar, but I think it's the easiest and most humane that I'm aware of. Since snakes are really appealing to dogs, you have to teach the dog that going after them is unpleasant, basically.

The training I went to wasn't particularly harsh. The collars were adjusted for each dog and the shock wasn't overdone. I'm sure it varies a lot from trainer to trainer, though, just like anything.

I sent an email to my friends in CO and will PM you when I hear back from them.

As far as SAR stuff, we don't carry anti-venom or anything. We learn about first aid and how to treat a rattlesnake bite, and we do rattlesnake aversion training as a team. Plus, the dogs are either in your sight or they're working and hopefully ignore distractions from snakes.

Really though it isn't something I worry about that much. If you're in control of your dog, the odds of any given encounter resulting in a bite are minimal. The kind of rattlers you have in CO would rather just scare off your dog rather than bite, so unless you let the dog antagonize the snake, a bite is really unlikely. Even if a bite does occur, the majority of bites by western diamondbacks (which are most of what you'll encounter in CO) dry bites where very little to no venom is injected. Of course the puncture wounds alone still require a vet visit, but it's not immediately life-threatening in the way a venomous bite is. Of course that's not to say rattlesnakes aren't dangerous, but I don't think most dogs necessarily need aversion training to be safe. The only reason I got it with my dogs is that I was living in an area where there were tons of snakes (seriously, on a half-hour hack I once counted 37 rattlers), and I was working horses so my dogs were out with me but I wasn't necessarily paying close attention to them. If I was just hiking with dogs, I personally wouldn't worry about getting the training or the vaccine. JMO of course.

[Bear GSD]

Rowdydogs, thanks for the response. I didn't realize what went into snake aversion training,
I'm not sure I could go through it with my dog. I think I might want to sit in on one and decide whether it is something I could do.
I've decided to pass on the vaccine, so I guess I'll have to wait and hope the snake season is not too bad.
The snakes by me are pretty bad, my house faces open space with a prairie dog colony, so they are around everywhere, not just the trails. There have been quite a few dogs that have been bitten and a few that have died.
I don't let Bear off leash anywhere except the dog park because of it.
Thanks for all if the information, it was very helpful!
I hope that things are going well with Abi!