To Spay or not to Spay

[JeanKBBMMMAAN]

To me it does. Also if a female goes into heat twice a year at one month at a time, for 12 years (hopefully at least) that is a a full 2 years of their lives. So I include that in when I am weighing things out.

Like you say, up to the owner, and I add my caveat, but only if they are able to have an intact animal without an oops.

[selzer]

JeanKBBMMMAAN,

Do you think that bitches suffer when they are in heat?

Being a woman, I would have had my pieces parts out long ago if I could have. But a woman's body and a bitch's body are very different. Three weeks of bleeding every six months or so is not like having a monthly cycle where year in and year out you have PMS and then cramps, pain, bloating, bleeding, depression, etc, etc.

You would never guess my girls are in heat unless you see some red spots and check their backsides. They can and want to do everything they do when they are not in season.

Physiologically, every heat cycle bambards the uteris with progesterone. And I believe that without having litters, this will eventually cause a bitch to become sterile as she ages. So bitches having their first litter at age six or seven are very uncommon. And as years march on, their chances of having complications due to their body system's natural aging increases.

But is this a reason to cause the artificial aging that removing the hormone generating devices may create? I lost my Arwen last night. I have to wonder that if she had not had the major surgery removing her pieces parts while having a c-section, maybe she would still be around. Had they just done the c-section, they would not have had to spend so much time inside her cutting off bleeders. She would not have had to have been out so long. She would have maintained her hormones, and the aging that I recognized since the spay may have been accelerated becuase of it. Or, it could have just been her time to go. I will probably never know.

And it is probably best not to think too deeply about it today. But in the seven years she had her parts she did not get pyometra and she was not miserable due to heat cycles. There is always the possibility that in my attempt to save her from one evil, I have made her more susceptable to another.

[stephen4036]

my dog had to be spayed from the rescue, she got spayed at 2-3 years so... but my last dog died of mammory cancer b/c she was spayed at 6 years old.

[JeanKBBMMMAAN]

I don't think they suffer, but around here, there are no leash laws, no one uses a leash, even at the stupid vet office people come in with dogs off lead, so my girls would be locked up 2 years of their lives! When I got Bella, I didn't realize how tantalizing she was (she was in heat when I got her - and she was not happy about it) and had no idea how male dogs would react until the one and only walk I took her on ended with us being chased home by a mini Schnauzer!

Don't second guess (easy for me to say) about Arwen. The studies that people quote are always about pediatric speuters and recommend late speuters for all animals. So you went with the recommendations.

[selzer]

Having many dogs and just me, if one or two or three bitches are in heat, they get to stay home. They are not "locked up" but they are in their kennels. Because I have the kennels and near field, and far field securely fenced, I can let them run while I am out there and not worry about them being molested by and scurvy mutt.

If I had just one or two dogs, it may be a whole other story, especially if I was training them for something like SAR. The down time, might be too much. They do not HAVE to stay down, but it does make it much easier with regards to suiters.

I have seen a guy walking his bitch with a baseball bat. Uhm, I will just leave mine at home for a few weeks, and no foul.

Lots of people with fewer dogs remark how theirs needs their walk every day. Mine have never gotten a walk every day so it really is not hard on them to wait until they are out of heat. I can see how it can be a real pain for other people, so I think spaying for convenience is a valid reason to spay. It seems that both ways there are risks involved, risks to spaying and risks to not spaying, which leaves it down to a personal decision.

I do not think anyone should be berated for not spaying or spaying. My only pet peeve is people using the "roaming dog/bitch" reason for getting a dog speutered, or for strongly encouraging everyone else to do so, especially when they get angry if you decide not to do so.

[Jessiewessie99]

My GSD, Molly, is spayed, and is perfectly healthy and fine.My other GSD, Tanner is neutered, and is perfectly healthy and fine.We don't have either dog in a kennel or pen, they have a nice backyard to play in and relax and the house.We have french doors, but we let our dogs outside by themselves.If we lived in open acres and a big farm, then yeah we would be watching them.Its not only "the got out and got knocked up" exuse,its also some people have 2 dogs, a male and female, and neither are fixed, then come a oops litter.Also, some people may take their dog to a dog beach or dog park and their dog isnt fixed, and while at that dog park or beach, they see another dog that isnt fixed, they get frisky and oops here come the puppies.Some people brush it off as showing dominance, and in some cases it is and some cases it isnt.

Its someone's choice if they choose to spay/neuter their dog.I thank god we did!When I walk Molly, people will compliment her, I say thank you, and they ask "Is she fixed?". I respond "No." Sometimes, they say "Oh ok. Just wondering, because I have a male German Shepherd." Or some just walk away.And I dont think the Germand Shepherd breed will die out anytime soon, in reference to someone else's comment.

The shelter I work at provides financial aid to those who can't afford the surgery for spay/neuter.And every animal there gets check ups and is eventually spayed and neutered.

But it is someone's choice whether or not they spay/neuter their dogs.All my dogs have been fixed and nothing was wrong with them.They lived long, happy healthy lives.If someone chooses not to fix their dogs, then thats them, let them take their chances, they are doing what they think is best for their dog or dogs.

[selzer]

Jessiewessie99, Have you ever owned an intact bitch? Were you ever present when a dog was bred to a bitch?

I always have a little chuckle when people say that their dog has this oopse litter because they were at the dog park with their in heat female and she got together with an intact male and...

Now if it is a silent heat -- a phenomenen that I have never dealt with, I can understand having an in-heat female at a dog park. But even if the female is in those couple of days after ovulation when she can actually become pregnant, I would have to ask where in the world were the dog and bitch's owners while their animals got all the way around the bases.

I mean the don't just oogle each other for a second and tie in the next second. There is a whole lot of sniffing, and then some unmistakeable antics. The male generally mounts the female several times unsuccessfully before he actually manages to do the deed. Sometimes he mounts her head.

This is the thing. People say they know someone whose dogs tied through a fence. Uhm, well, being present during conception on many occasions, there is not one occassion where that would have worked at all.

Often times the stud dog owner holds the bitch and guides the dog. The dog and bitch would definitely get their eventually, but it is ceratainly not something you would know was happening if you were right there.

And two owners, the dog's owner and the bitch's owner SHOULD be able to connect their leashes and pull their animals apart LONG before any mating takes place. I do not mean pulling them apart if tied, but there is plenty of time and plenty of signs that a mating could take place if we do not step in.

If you own a bitch and a dog, it is possible that you could miss the fact that he is paying a whole lot more attention to her than usual. I never could, I mean, my boy had his nose velcro'd to my girls nether region for days before the mating.

Personally, I believe that the vast majority of oops litters are people who either want their bitch to have puppies, or do not care if she does or not. Faced with what it entails, some will drop the bitch off at a shelter and claim oops. For some rediculous reason it is more acceptable to have a litter by accident, than to have a planned litter.

[Jessiewessie99]

I have only owned a total of 4 dogs all my life.My family just decided to get our dogs spayed.The owners of my current dog's parents just didnt bother to get their male GSD or their female GSD fixed.The dogs were not related, and they just got together and my dog was born.She wasnt from a backyard breeder, because her parents owners werent intending on having a litter of puppie.That happens alot, people have male and female dogs they just dont get fixed and they have unexpected puppies.THere are many reasons why a female dog gets pregnant.

Like I said it was my family's choice to get our dog spayed like it was yuor choice not to get your dogs spayed.

[Jessiewessie99]

And I will probably get all my female dogs spayed, because I don't want to breed them, and I don't want to be known as a BYB or Bad Breeder.

[Jessiewessie99]

There are usually people who just have 2 dogs that they didnt bother to get fixed and thats how some dogs come to be.Thats how my dog came to be.My last 2 dogs were brother and sister, we didnt want to have inbred dogs, or have and unexpected litter.Our 2 current dogs are not related, we don't want to breed them, or them to breed themselves.Plus our male dog was neutered when we got him, we got him at a shelter.We jsut chose to get our dogs fixed, and they are all healthy.My mom's dogs that she had growing up were all fixed, all the dogs my dad's family had when he was growing up were all fixed.They all lived happy healthy lives.We just want to be responsible dog owners.If someone chooses to get their dogs fixed or not is not my choice.Like I said before, its their choice, they are doing whats best for their dogs.