To Spay or not to Spay

[selzer]

When you consider your lack of making sure your fences are shut might mean a death penalty to your dog, than no it is not acceptable.

Why is it not ok for someone to let their dog get roasted in her car, but it is ok for someone to let the dogs out back, gate is open and the dogs get run over by a car?

Your dogs may slip out the door in the front and get creamed in the road, or bite the receding mailman, either of which might end up with a dead dog.

We go to classes to ensure that our dogs do not forge through doors ahead of us, and if they do, their recall is solid.

GSD owners cannot be complacent about containing their dogs because it leads to tragedy. It is wishful thinking that a dog, once altered is NEVER going to rush through the door, or go out of an open gate. I hear it all the time as a reason to spay/neuter and it makes me cringe. People should not give into a false sense of security just because the animal is fixed.

[Raziel]

Originally Posted By: selzerWhen you consider your lack of making sure your fences are shut might mean a death penalty to your dog, than no it is not acceptable.

Why is it not ok for someone to let their dog get roasted in her car, but it is ok for someone to let the dogs out back, gate is open and the dogs get run over by a car?

Your dogs may slip out the door in the front and get creamed in the road, or bite the receding mailman, either of which might end up with a dead dog.

We go to classes to ensure that our dogs do not forge through doors ahead of us, and if they do, their recall is solid.

GSD owners cannot be complacent about containing their dogs because it leads to tragedy. It is wishful thinking that a dog, once altered is NEVER going to rush through the door, or go out of an open gate. I hear it all the time as a reason to spay/neuter and it makes me cringe. People should not give into a false sense of security just because the animal is fixed.

[LisaT]

Originally Posted By: Doc One thing for certain (backed up by a recent study) spaying too early IS NOT the way to go.

Also, the post, Respect the Ovaries, should be in our Health Index/Sticky.

[roxy84]

i will not bring up names here, but i clearly recall another thread where we were discussing the idea that "nobody is perfect and everybody makes mistakes" (this was in regard to someone not knowing a dog was left in a car and cooking to death)

at any rate, said member, in making their point, made it clear that no one is perfect and made it a point to admit that even she herself accidentally left a latch on a gate open (but discovered it before it was too late). had a bitch in heat gotten out or a neighborhood male gotten in, well...nuff said. (in addition to the aforementioned dangers of a loose dog).

this is not to chastise anyone, but to say spaying is a reasonable alternative for those who, while diligent in watching their dogs, want to be 100% sure there will never be an "oops" litter

[roxy84]

Originally Posted By: LisaT

Also, the post, Respect the Ovaries, should be in our Health Index/Sticky.

it was a fairly valid study as it relates to women, and if the study in that post had involved a significant sample of dogs, id feel better about its relevance to female dogs. (the study on women involved 29,000 women (if i remeber correctly), while the sample size of the dogs was in the hundreds. a sample that small can be too easily skewed by a variety of factors.

[LisaT]

Originally Posted By: roxy84it was a fairly valid study as it relates to women, and if the study in that post had involved a significant sample of dogs, id feel better about its relevance to female dogs. (the study on women involved 29,000 women (if i remeber correctly), while the sample size of the dogs was in the hundreds. a sample that small can be too easily skewed by a variety of factors.

I don't find the size of the dog study enough to discount the findings, particularly since it aligns with the common sense that we have found with women's studies: http://www.gpmcf.org/respectovaries.html

[BuoyantDog]

Originally Posted By: selzerLeaving a dog in a fenced area, a yard, or kennel is not ok.

So I guess everyone else here who 1. doesn't have Selzer's setup 2. has a full time job 3. keeps their dog in a fenced yard or kennel 4. cannot add an extension to their house should not own a German Shepherd Dog.

First, we were talking about spaying, now we are talking about yard set ups and how most of the GSD owners here are irresponsible because we keep our dogs contained in different ways.

We are all different people with different lives, different dogs, different jobs, who live in different areas. Some of the "holier than thou" statements I've seen on this thread are much too pompous for me.

[sleepybree03]

Wow thanks for everyone's response! I c this can be a hot topic lol My GSDs are inside house dogs and only go outside supervised. I do have a fenced yard but since I live in a big city, I want to make sure they do not try to escape or that they don't bark too long at the neighbor's dog, etc.

These are the articles I've read: http://www.naiaonline.org/pdfs/LongT...uterInDogs.pdf


This next study I read was done on rottweilers so I obviously did not want to generalize this to all large breeds that's why I wanted to ask GSD owners of their experiences/thoughts ( the link was already posted here).

I want to ask a vet about my dog's particular risks for any of these diseases but most vets offer the spay/neuter automatically and indiscriminately and don't really offer any details. It seems that, just like everything else ( even in humans), you may fix one health problem but may cause others lol

Oh, Also, my female is already over 2 yrs old..i read spaying to decrease chances of mammary tumors is most effective if done before her first heat cycle...so would it even matter at this point to spay only for that reason?

[selzer]

What bothers me is that people seem to think that because a dog is intact it is standing inside the front door just waiting for their opportunity to rush out the moment the door is opened so they can hook up with a mate and make an oopse litter.

I have a lot of intact females and have had three separate intact males, and not one of them was like this at all.

Roxy84, you seem to be more concerned about an oopse litter than you are a dead dog. So you will get yours spayed to ensure there are not oopses if one does get out. I am more concerned with a seriously injured or dead dog, so I will make sure one of mine does not get out so I don't have to worry about the oopse.

Bouyant Dog, you seem to have an axe to grind, but I will say again, that I do not think people should leave a dog, intact or neutered in a fenced yard for the work day. Inside a kennel within a fenced yard is fine -- that is my set up. But it is not the ONLY way to keep an animal safe. If your house is secure, then you can keep them inside. If you are afraid they will go through a window, then you will need to keep them crated while you are not home. Having a fenced in area for the dog to run in is fine, but it should be for the dog while you are out there.

A dog does not sit around waiting for the door to open so they can dash through and get away, They do not wait for a gate to be unlatched. But a dog who has some time on their paws WILL find the weak spot in your fence, they will dig under or climb over if it is possible, they have the time, and there is anything to lure them on the other side. That does not need to be a dog or a bitch in heat, it could be squirrels, or deer, or little kids with sticks, or cats, or any number of things.

Let's go a step farther. Do you believe that someone who cannot control their dog should not own the dog? I mean a person whose dog will literally drag her across the street to attack another dog or person. Should that person own a dog they cannot control?

I believe that a person who cannot contain a dog, should not own the dog, because you cannot control a dog if you do not know where it is.

People, for every one of us, here on this site, there are probably a dozen GSD owners who aren't trying to learn everything about them, who are not committed to training, who are not concerned about whether or not their dog adds to the gene pool, who are not worried about the best foods, and safe toys, and kennels and fencing. If we here, who live and breathe GSDs, do not have solidarity about keeping our dogs safe, than what a battle is it that we must overcome. When people let their dogs get out and make shepherd crosses, eight or so puppies come into the world, somd of which may not find a loving home the first time around. When people let their dogs out and they end up biting someone, the incidents of breed discrimination, where we live, homeowner's insurance, breed banning, and the like goes way up.

Getting your dog spayed because someday it may get out and get pregnant is simply not an ok thought in my opinion.

[BuoyantDog]

I suppose we differ in opinion on the subject of securing dogs. As a firefighter, I run 3 miles a day or engage in arduous backcountry hiking with my dog to keep in shape AND obedience train her every day. As a result, escaping my property due to boredom or breaking windows, doors or gates doesn't happen, and I can go on a fire knowing she is safe in my fenced yard, physically and mentally tired out and sleeping in the sun. My dog has never been loose, and she was spayed when I adopted her as a rescue. We have different situations, as you have many more dogs than me, so different setups seem to work well for each of us. I respect your opinions and the way you secure your dogs, and I hope you respect mine. Our differences make the world work. Sincerely, Christina