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Old 02-17-2014, 11:41 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Vomiting from hunger when feeding raw

Hi everyone -

I know this can be common with GSDs, but Warden vomits bile when his stomach is empty.

We currently feeding a pre-ground prey model raw, mixed with kibble. We are having trouble switching completely to raw because Warden has been getting up in the night vomiting because he's hungry... the raw digests so much faster than the kibble and at about 4am he's so hungry he gets sick. His last meal is at 8pm.

Anyone have any advice for this? At this point, the pre-ground is more convenient as it contains the right amount of meat, bone, and organ and is readily accessible because a member of our walking group grinds it.

Is there anything I could add to his food other than kibble to help last him through the night? He gets supplements, pumpkin, and the occasional egg with his food also. He is lactose-intolerant and we are trying to avoid grain. I don't mind adding kibble honestly, but he gets kibble on daycare days (lunch and snack 3x a week) and I'd prefer to do raw as much as possible when he's home!

Thanks all :-)
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Old 02-17-2014, 12:02 PM   #2 (permalink)
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We had lots of that. It turned out that my dog couldn't tolerate chicken, duck, turkey, or venison, and I do believe some of the vomiting was caused by that.

We pushed his feeding time to nine or 9:30 PM, and that seems to hold him until morning, when he gets a cup of freeze-dried.

Have you tried a snack just before he goes to sleep at night?
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Old 02-17-2014, 12:02 PM   #3 (permalink)
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I know it has been debated over the years as to whether it might be problematic mixing kibble and raw....don't know if there is any merit to either side of the argument since I never mix the two. I feed straight raw for my dog's primary meals and then use kibble as treats throughout the day but the amount of kibble as treats probably amounts to 1/2 cup or so.

The throwing up bile when the dog is hungry does not sound common to me but perhaps others might suggest it is ???

Maybe try feeding the kibble and raw separately at different hours rather than mixing and see if anything changes. I also add items to my dog's raw diet such as yams, which have been put through the food processor until they are pureed. I also use pumpkin,eggs (whole) as you do...and at times add some yogurt or cottage cheese. I'm a big fan of incorporating green tripe as well.

I have always tried to make only one change ( addition or subtraction ) to my dog's meals at a time and then see the results so I don't have so much guess work if I make more than one change.

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Old 02-17-2014, 12:06 PM   #4 (permalink)
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I feed a few treats before bed to help fill my dogs tummies until breakfast. Leyna will also throw up bile if she goes too long without food.


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Old 02-17-2014, 12:12 PM   #5 (permalink)
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it takes some time for the liver to detox. recommended by vet Martin Zucker , Triphala
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Old 02-17-2014, 12:21 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Thanks for the responses. He's vomited bile on kibble as well, but it's more frequent now that he gets the raw too. By frequent I mean once every couple weeks or so, and always in the middle of the night.

Didn't know there was a debate about mixing raw and kibble... Is it a health concern? I'd really rather do raw, but they can't accommodate that at daycare.

Any ideas on adding other things that are known to digest more slowly? I can do canned tripe easily too, but I can't imagine it digesting any more slowly... I'll also try a snack right before bed!


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Old 02-17-2014, 12:24 PM   #7 (permalink)
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you don't want to slow digestion --
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Old 02-17-2014, 12:25 PM   #8 (permalink)
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How old is your dog, and what and how often are you feeding?

Could you schedule so that he doesn't need to be fed at daycare?
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Old 02-17-2014, 12:27 PM   #9 (permalink)
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I found the answer to what you were feeding. Posting it here so others might see and help.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eiros View Post
Attachment 180026



I've been looking for an opportunity to use this picture!! Lol this is "the works" - he doesn't get all this at each meal of course, and egg is only a couple times a week.

Prey model ground raw, solid gold barking at the moon, egg, kelp, probiotic, pumpkin, fish oil, vitamin e oil, glucosamine. His coat is so shiny and soft, and his winter itchies are gone too!




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Old 02-17-2014, 12:27 PM   #10 (permalink)
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My dog had the same issues when on raw. We couldn't possibly feed him 3 times a day, and the only time we could feed him was before 8 in the morning and then it was necessary to feed him at around 9 or 10 at night in order to prevent the empty stomach.

It was still almost automatic that at around 7 he'd puke bile. Sometimes he wouldn't want to eat because his stomach was probably already upset and so he didn't have an appetite, would throw up, and then eat like 30 minutes later.

Giving biscuits seemed to help for a little while, but waking up at around 2 in the morning to slip him a cookie got old really quick and also stopped working after a while.

Sad to say, we went back to all kibble and he's much better now. We still get an episode of bile about once every two weeks, but its much better than every day or every other day. We went with a high quality kibble (fromm) so I don't feel terrible about not doing raw.

I think the bile moving through the esophagus every other day greatly outweighs the benefits that raw feeding might have over a high quality kibble, plus its just terrible watching your dog go through that every morning.
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