New to Raw and totally overwhelmed!
Is there a Raw for Dummies book anywhere? lol
Also, what is RMB, MM and OM?
Are there any things dogs should NOT eat?
I've just started my dog on Raw. I'm feeding the pre-packaged products, which are more convenient, but very expensive. I'm trying to work myself off that and onto meats I've bought myself, but the first few times I've fed her chicken wings (I was told these are ok?) She pooped out rather large pieces of bone, and I'm really concerned about that, so went back to the pre-packaged for now.
I also feed her the odd sardine (I feed it frozen) which she loves.
Right now, she's on a chicken and turkey diet (to start, I'm going to pick up more variety of meats tonight). I feed a bit of yogurt & cottage cheese, tripe (yuck!), virgin coconut oil, organic ACV and a few spoonfuls of veggie mix I made myself.
I've had a lot of trouble with loose poop with her while on kibble, and the Raw seems to be helping a lot, so I want to stick with it, but I'm a bit stressed out about doing it right. I have a lot more control over what she eats, but the bones are freaking me out! How do you know how much bone to feed?
How concerned do I need to be about her swallowing down large pieces of bone, and what can I do about it?
Someone give me a pep talk! lol :crazy:
I spent three years (give or take) researching raw. I've decided to follow Prey Model Raw. No veggies.
For the first week I have fed my dogs ONLY chicken. each gets a chicken leg quarter. the bigger the piece of meat, the more likely they are to chew it, instead of trying to inhale it whole. today I just took a small whole chicken, cut it in half and gave each dog a half. I do have to remove most of the skin for my older dog since that seems to be what causes him looser stool.
I'm going to slowly start incorporating pork into their diet, a small piece off a pork shoulder each meal until they can handle a meal of nothing but pork without loose stool. After they've had solid stool for about a week, I'm going to introduce another protein source, making sure to add a meal of chicken with bone as needed. I will do this over the course of many weeks until they've eaten all protein sources I am able to feed them. then I'll begin to add in the organ meats.
Eventually their diet will be 80% MM (Muscle Meats), 10% OM (organ meats with half being liver) and 10% RMB (raw meaty bone)
I will not feed them large weight bearing bones as they can cause broken teeth and not worth the risk.
I researched both Prey Model Raw and B.A.R.F. and I agree with the PMR philosophy and it seems much easier to boot. I 've found a LOT of resources online (groups on yahoo, facebook, websites) and plenty of books. I'm sorry I didn't start sooner.
My dogs have been on raw a week now and both are doing really well. Sadly I didn't do this sooner. I switched after both had issues with another bag of dog food. it was getting ridiculous.
I had just had my older dogs teeth cleaned at the dentist last month. My 3 yr old GSD's teeth look beautifully white and clean and she's only been eating raw a week. Of course the labs teeth look good, since he just had them cleaned, but that was the last dental visit he's going to have.
ETA: My older dog has always been a hoover type eater. Occasionally he'll try to inhale his chicken leg quarter too soon and he just horks it back up (I made that word up but that's how it sounds lol) and keeps on chewing.
Sounds like you're off to a Great start!
RMB - Raw Meaty Bones
MM - Muscle Meat (includes heart)
OM - Organ meat (liver, kidneys...)
Bones, as I recall should make up about 10% of the diet...but that's tough to guess, isn't it. I think the formula Lauri puts on her website will get you there without you having to guess what might equal 10%: The Basics
As I understand it, if you're feeding PMR (prey model raw) you want to approximate the proportions that would replicate feeding a whole prey animal (hence the ~10% bone). Doesn't need to be done every day, you can make up the prey animals by combining separate parts over a week or so.
My rule of thumb is that if my dogs' stools are too firm, I'm feeding too much bone...Too loose, too much rich organ meat. You'll find yourself inspecting stools and being proud of yourself when they are Just right :p
The goal is stools that are firm and compact, but not difficult for the dog to pass. They should turn white after a couple of days and start to crumble (if you have enough property where you don't feel the need to scoop up every poop right away you'll see this happening).
But, you might be working more on the B.A.R.F. model, since you're feeding veggies, in which case my response might not be too helpful.
As far as gulping goes, try freezing the chicken parts first. It forces them to chew thorugh the meat and bone at the same time and helps lessen the chance of them gulping a bone. Also, larger parts make them work to tear the meat off the bone and can lessen the chance of them gulping bone, at least until they work it down to gulping size (which you can monitor for).
What to completely avoid: Dense weight bearing bones from large animals such as cow femurs. These are known as "wreck bones" (many people give them a rec/recreational bones...these are the things you see in the pet stores and feed stores. I quit giving those a while back. The reason is that they can be tooth-breakers. If you want to feed a large animal part like this, just let them eat off the meat and take the bone back and dispose of it. And I think twice about cut bones, like found in a t-bone steak. I try to stick with natural animal parts, like they would encounter naturally when eating prey animals.
My dogs have been on the raw prey model for nearly two years. I made the decision to go raw after reading these forums and reading *everything* on Lauri's Raw Dog Ranch website: Welcome to the Raw Dog Ranch
They have done SO well on this diet. Both of my dogs are rescues. When we took our GSD to the vet for a second visit after she'd been eating raw for six weeks our vet didn't even recognize her. Our vet is *really* supportive of the raw diet (which I've heard can be rare) and he's be consistently impressed by our dogs' health and appearance.
You need to do a lot of experimenting. While my dogs adore pork, neither of them tolerate it well. They'll get an occasional pig's foot for a small snack but I can't incorporate it into their regular diet. I was lucky to find a raw feeding group in my area where I can purchase meats in bulk. I also order turkey necks and chicken backs from a local butcher.
Check out Lauri's site, there's so much great info. I use her formulas for how much to feed. But I only use it as a jumping off point. I find that I have to feed my GSD up to 5 oz less per day than her calculations - but it took months of feeding and monitoring her weight to figure out exactly what works best for her.
Maybe your dog should be given a sturdier bone - like that in a turkey neck or a chicken leg quarter. Wing bones are pretty small and brittle...chicken wings and chicken necks give my dogs the runs. But they LOVE chicken backs and leg quarters and they adore turkey necks. I also give them a ground muscle mix that includes heart, liver, tripe and misc beef. They do a pretty good job of not swallowing much whole - I also feed everything frozen so they have to chew and work at it. That might be something for you to try.
You're on the right track - keep doing your reading. Your dog is very lucky!
Oh, I know what you mean about being obsessed with poo. I think I can now be called a fecalpheliac! :D
My puppy has had chronic diarrhea, bouts of giardia that she keeps getting despite all the cleaning etc. I figured, I had to try to get her immune system back on track so she can fight it herself.
So far it's been pretty good, except with one day of loose poop and the big bone pieces. I'm hoping this is the answer! I'm amazed at how little she's pooping (there I go again! lol) compared to kibble!
Ok,I thought the smaller wing bones would be easier for her to crunch up, but maybe I'll try the quarters and try freezing them. My friend is going to buy bulk on the necks offal etc. and we're going to split it.
She loves it so much. This morning the prepackaged stuff wasn't totally thawed out, so I was warming it in her bowl in a sink of hot water. She was sitting in the dark, in front of the sink, whimpering at it for like 10 minutes until I finally let her eat it. LMAO. Saddest thing you've ever seen. lol
When I first rescued our GSD her poops were terrible, no matter how high the quality of her kibble. It changed so quickly on raw. Last Thanksgiving we went away to visit family and I completely spaced on packing dog food (in trying to manage all of our luggage and other food we were taking I totally forgot it). I felt like such a dolt - we travel all the time with the dogs and I'd never forgotten their food before! For the first day or two we fed them our in-law's kibble (which was high quality). Suddenly they had massive poops three times a day! I've never seen so much poop! After that second day I went up to the local butcher and had him weigh out some meat pieces for us (handy!)...I didn't care how expensive it was - anything to get them off the kibble was worth it.
Oh, when I made the switch my dogs looked at me like "So you aren't the stupidest person on the planet, after all...You finally Got it!"
I know the whine! Mine sing and dance for their supper :D
I know I need to step up obedience in that department, but I secretly enjoy our dinnertime waltz from the kitchen to the lawn ;)
Going raw was the best decision I think I have ever made for them.
My senior rescue who came to me limping will now trot through the yard and can even get herself up onto the sofa...and her breath which would have knocked you out from across the room, no longer an issue.
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