Starting Raw soon, couple questions

[Minoli]

From what I've read, I should feed: (from Rawdogranch and other sources)
45% Raw Meaty Bones
50% Muscle Meat
5% Organ Meat

I just ordered a scale to weigh out Leo's food. (He'll weigh approximately 75-80 lbs., so 3% would be 2.4 lbs. a day, roughly 1.2 lbs for his 2 daily meals)

My three questions:
1. Which bones are generally best for your dog, or do you prefer to feed? I read that some bones could be very hard on their teeth.

2. Where do you purchase from? I was planning on Meijer, or a local grocery store to give me some time to contact a butcher and work out pricing. I'll be capable of buying about a 1 month supply at a time after I buy an additional small freezer (small amount of freezer space as is)

3. Does Meijer (or similar stores) sell Organ Meat? I know they sell RMB & MM.

I apologize for the newbie questions, and appreciate all advice and input.

[anjum]

1. I would start w/ the smaller poultry bones. Poultry bones are less dense & easier to digest. When a dog 1st switches to raw, their stomach needs some time to adjust & start producing enough of the very acidic juices that aid in digestion.

- Turkey wing, neck or back (may need to be cut down into smaller portions).
- Chicken back (may need to cut down). Chicken necks & wings can pose a choking hazard, because they are easy to try & swallow whole. So only feed those if you know your dog is not a gulper. If you're cutting whole chickens, you can keep the wing & breast together, which eliminates the gulping hazard.
- Chicken legs & thighs could be added a short time later, week or two.
- Later, any bone-in cuts of pork, lamb or goat could also provide bone content.
- The bones that are hard on teeth are the weight-bearing bones (leg bones) from larger animals, like cows, buffalo, deer, elk, moose, etc. IMO, it depends on if your dog is a hard-chewer or not. Some dogs will just chew the meat off & then leave the bone alone once it's bare. Other dogs will continue to gnaw on the bare bone for as long as they have access to it. Continuing to chew on that bone can cause wear on the teeth, or cause them to crack or fracture. My dogs leave the bones alone once the meat is off, so I give them for recreational chews once in a while.

2. I purchase from the grocery (ethnic groceries are good also) and from a local co-op that sources many places, including farmers, hunters & butchers. I also feed a good deal of Green Tripe (one of the sources in the co-op, greentripe.com).

The only word of caution when shopping at the grocery is to look out for "Enhanced" meats. These have some sort of solution or broth injected into the meat, generally contains excess sodium or other chemicals your dog doesn't need (& can cause upset stomach or worse for some dogs). It must be printed on the label, so you just need to look. Usually found in pork or turkey, sometimes chicken.

3. Most grocery stores sell liver, which should make up about half of the organ content (organ content can be up to 10% of the whole diet, so up to 5% of the whole diet can be liver). They also generally sell gizzards & hearts, but these count as muscle. I believe "sweet breads" are other organs.
Many ethnic stores sell other organs as well, most easily found kidney, maybe spleen or pancreas as well.

HTH

[CookieTN]

Originally Posted by Minoli

From what I've read, I should feed: (from Rawdogranch and other sources)
45% Raw Meaty Bones
50% Muscle Meat
5% Organ Meat

I just ordered a scale to weigh out Leo's food. (He'll weigh approximately 75-80 lbs., so 3% would be 2.4 lbs. a day, roughly 1.2 lbs for his 2 daily meals)

My three questions:
1. Which bones are generally best for your dog, or do you prefer to feed? I read that some bones could be very hard on their teeth.

2. Where do you purchase from? I was planning on Meijer, or a local grocery store to give me some time to contact a butcher and work out pricing. I'll be capable of buying about a 1 month supply at a time after I buy an additional small freezer (small amount of freezer space as is)

3. Does Meijer (or similar stores) sell Organ Meat? I know they sell RMB & MM.

I apologize for the newbie questions, and appreciate all advice and input.

Interesting...I was always told 80/10/10--80% meat, 10% bones, 5% liver, and 5% other secreting organ. I do prey model, though, so I guess it's just a different type of raw. Sounds like it'd still work.

1. Ox tails (only the smaller parts for my little dog, but Cookie (GSD) could eat the larger ones), turkey necks, pork tails, pork ribs, chicken thighs
2. Grocery store, meat market
3. Most stores sell liver, I think. I don't shop at Meijer because they aren't in my area, but see if they sell sweetbreads (beef thymus) or beef kidney. Or even pork brains.

[anjum]

Originally Posted by CookieTN

Interesting...I was always told 80/10/10--80% meat, 10% bones, 5% liver, and 5% other secreting organ. I do prey model, though, so I guess it's just a different type of raw. Sounds like it'd still work.

1. Ox tails (only the smaller parts for my little dog, but Cookie (GSD) could eat the larger ones), turkey necks, pork tails, pork ribs, chicken thighs
2. Grocery store, meat market
3. Most stores sell liver, I think. I don't shop at Meijer because they aren't in my area, but see if they sell sweetbreads (beef thymus) or beef kidney. Or even pork brains.

I feed the same way as you, but I've read up on the other way. It ends up being basically the same. Either way, you need to watch the dog's stool & adjust bone content from there. Some dogs can tolerate much more bone than others; some dogs get loose stools very easily & need the greater bone content. And it helps to know the relative amount of bone in different cuts. Chicken/Turkey breast has the least, then thighs, legs, wings, backs/necks.

oh, and good suggestion on the ox or pork tails - those are smaller bones that would be easier to digest.

[onyx'girl]

Meijer will run you $$... they don't really have much of a butcher shop, I'd go to a mom & pop grocer or meat processor for your meat. There is a smaller butcher near me that sells thymus, kidneys and will order turkey necks(I have to buy #30 box to get a better price on the necks.)
I have a local processer that has a good dog food grind for $1 a pound(if you do this, ask what they are making/and how much liver) Another processor has a bad dog food grind(fat!) for 50cents #...so less isn't always more.

Mypetcarnivore also delivers in MI, I get green tripe from there.

[anjum]

^^^ And I forgot about processors & distributors, another good source. I do get 30# cases of turkey necks or legs from a distributor. They mostly sell wholesale, but they sell to the public as well. It's worth looking into & calling around to see if any will sell to you.

[lhczth]

I live S.W of Ann Arbor so I can only tell you about the stores in my area. The Meijer's in Adrian seems to carry more different things like heart and kidney where as I never find these things in the two Ann Arbor stores I go to. It seems to depend on the ethnic leanings of the area. Country Market's are good about ordering boxes of stuff though the prices can vary from store to store. There are two in Adrian, one in Brooklyn, one in Chelsea and one in Saline. These are good places to start (or similar stores) until you can find a source that works better for you. If you are any where near Detroit, Eastern Market is supposed to be an excellent location for buying meats at a more wholesale price.

I feed mostly chicken RMB because of their cost, but the other two main RMB for my dogs are pork neck and turkey parts (mostly necks). I also buy mutton from a local breeder. It is more expensive so I feed that one or two times a month. Then my primary muscle meat is beef and pork heart plus ground beef when on sale. Occasionally lamb heart. Offal is mostly beef or chicken livers, but also beef kidney (it kills me that I can't get these free anymore), and the liver, kidney and brains from the mutton. Then, because I have then, they get a lot of eggs from free range hens. My guys also supplement their own diet in the summer with field mice when we are in the fields and, unfortunately, animal poop (especially, gross, chicken).

[kbella999]

I'm just changing over and use the prey model which is 80/10/10. There is a yahoo group call rawfeeding that is very helpful. Here is a list of the percentage of bone in certain meats. You can find percentages by going to the link and typing in whatever meat you have.

Chicken back - 44% bone
Chicken neck with skin- 36% bone
Chicken breast - 20% bone
Chicken wing - 46% bone
Chicken leg - 27% bone
Chicken thigh - 21% bone
Whole chicken - 32% bone

Chicken quarters about 20% bone

Turkey Back - 41% bone (with skin removed 51%)
Turkey neck - 42% bone
Turkey breast - 10% bone
Turkey wing - 33% bone
Turkey leg - 17% bone
Whole turkey - 21% bone

Cornish hen - 39% bone

http://www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/foodcomp/search/ <http://www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/foodcomp/search/>

[Minoli]

Thank you for all the help so far.

Since I project him to weigh 80 lbs., 80 lbs. x .03 = 2.4 lbs of meat daily.

Ideally then, daily I'd feed:
1.92 lbs. Muscle Meat (2.4 x 0.8 = 1.92)
.24 lbs. Raw Meaty Bones (2.4 x 0.1 = .24)
.24 lbs. Organ Meat (2.4 x 0.1 = .24)

I've been contacting processors in my area for pricing. I also plan on ordering some from mypetcarnivore, and going to Eastern Market in Detroit.

When you guys make large purchases, do you have them grind it all up for you by type of meat (chicken, beef, pork, etc.)? If so, do you have them mix in the organs, or do you do this yourself?

I plan on going with a 2 month supply at first, so around 75 lbs. of chicken and 75 lbs. of beef.