Vet said only raw food is bad for my dog

[LoSt GhoSt]

Well, went to the vet today so Lycan can get some shot. When they asked me what food I was feeding him, she asked me if I was still feeding him pedegree.

I responded no that I had switched him on raw food and that he was on his third day doing great, with a lot more energy. The lady gave me this stare as if I had done the worst crime in the world. She was speachless for a few seconds and then told me that dogs should be fed kibble. That just like humans, they too can get sick and that I wouldn't run off to the store to buy meat and eat it raw myself.

Then she ran off and I could hear her telling the doctor that I was feeding him raw food. Doctor came in with the shots and proceeded to tell me that raw food alone was bad for the dog. That to much protein can cause bad bone grown. That he was not against it but that I should try to keep it about 30-40% Raw and the rest of it kibble so he could get the carbohydrates and vitamins he needs.

Then he said, "We would like to think that our dogs are like wolves but the truth is that they are not, although he does look like a wolf lol". Then he said that there digestive system has evolved different then wolves and are not designed for raw food only.

... So I'm kind of in the middle of a bridge trying to figure out which direction I should take. He does have a lot more energy, doesn't smell and my back yard doesn't smell so bad but dang they make you feel like what your doing is wrong lol

[BlackPuppy]

I think we've all got that response at some time from a vet. Well, most of us.

My dogs are so much healthier with raw food. Better coat, better teeth. Some dogs have shown an improved temperament with raw.

Next time just lie to your vet.

[ShenzisMom]

I am all for listening to your vet. However, a vet is not an animal nutritionist. Ever wonder why vets carry garbage food like Hills? They either know better and like the money they make for carrying the stuff or don't know better at all. And I'm not sure which is worse.

As long as your dog is receiving a balanced, whole raw diet, he is fine IMO. I think your vet is concerned you may be doing it wrong, and did not want to get into a debate about what you are feeding. For the majority of people (including me, I feed TOTW) kibble is easier. But your vet should not have said that to you...if he was concerned he should have done it right and made sure your dog is eating a balanced diet, and if not, give pointers. Good for you for feeding raw!

[Jax's Mom]

Are you only feeding meat?

[selzer]

I think it is possible to feed a raw diet without any kibble, but it is not easy. It is not just a matter of throwing chicken legs at the dog and saying, go to it. It is hard for your vet to know what you are doing with your raw diet.

I just throw chicken legs at my dogs -- that is why I said that, but I do that at the most two meals out of 14 in a week's time. The rest of the time I feed a balanced kibble.

Now, I am not saying that you need to use kibble, but really have to make sure that your dog is getting a variety of meats, bones, and if not ground egg shells and probably a good supplement for phophorus -- in the proper ratios to your calcium, and you will need foods that provide anti-oxidants like blue-berries, and some vegetables -- pureed. If you have been doing it for a goodly period of time, I am sure there are short cuts and tricks, and making large batches, separating and freezing that probably makes it less difficult.

But I can understand why your vet freaked out when you are feeding him raw. He probably does not know to what level you are committed to doing it properly.

If you do not have hours to spend on creating a well-balanced diet for your dog, with variations, I think you should take your vet's advice and find a great kibble, and then feed fresh meat as 30-40%.

[koda girl]

Funny this post should come up today. I have been feeding my girl raw for 3 1/2 or 4 months now. Only raw, we buy it from a supplier. I had her at the vet this morning, he does not know that we switched to raw. Anyway I had her there because she has been limping on and off. Hard to tell which front leg it is but today we settled on the right. X-Rays nothing broken he gave her anti-inflamatories. I have been wondering if too much raw is too much. She always had diarrhea on kibble but I am thinking about trying to put 1 meal of kibble a day into her diet. I just don't want the diarrhea to come back. So I don't know what to do but I am wondering if your vet could be correct, at least for some dogs.

[LoSt GhoSt]

Thanks for the response guys.

Well, I'm on day 3 and just started off so the foods are not yet complete but I've been looking and reading the stickies on BARF/Raw and Nutrition sub forums to get a better understanding so rest assure I will not half ass this lol.

And time I have plenty of to make his food.

And he also eats mangos, peaches, apples, watermelon and pineapples. I have not given him any blueberries but I have plenty of those. Ill throw some in his diet as well.

[Freestep]

Veterinary school teaches very little in the way of nutrition, and most of it is sponsored by corporations that manufacture dog food. Many vets also sell kibble, so it stands to reason they'd recommend it.

[selzer]

No better place than this to discuss this, I think. But I think a vet SHOULD say something to someone if they are feeding something. Ok, a vet is a professional, who went through a lot of college, and then a lot of grad school, and probably paid his dues in some type of internship before putting their shingle out. And still, where they list MBA average wage 100k+ and Engineers, 80K+ Vet's who have more schooling that both of these make an average of 60k -- in the neighborhood.

I am going somewhere with this.

So when they have their own practice, they have overhead (building rent or loans, equipment) and salaries to pay, expenses etc. So to bring home even 60K, they have to cram as many appointments as they can get in. Gee it cost me 40$ and I saw the vet for all of 5 minutes. Well, that might be about right when you consider what all you are paying for.

So I think it is a bit much for us to think that a vet will be spending an hour or more just getting you started in a raw diet right. AND you will walk away with your eye balls rolling in different directions . I think vet do see the results of people home-cooking for their dogs, or feeding raw for their dogs, but not going the distance.

If you are feeding a decent kibble that is just not working well for your dog, you might have some skin and coat problems, overweight, underweight, less energy, and you might be able to figure that out with a change of kibbles or a good supplement. Feeding a dog an unbalanced raw diet, well, the dog could be lacking vital nutrients or ratios might be out of wack and cause some serious problems.

There was a thread not long ago about weak pasterns and DECREASING protein actually improved that dog considerably.

I think the vet should have said something, to the effect, if you are going to feed raw, get a good book on the subject and follow the recipes, and educate yourself on the proper ratios and what all is needed in the canine diet, or maybe give you the name of a canine nutritionist who could help you with a diet.

With nothing more to go on, than "I'm feeding Raw." I think a vet would be unethical NOT to raise up the warning flag. (Sorry to those of you who feed raw correctly.)

I know people who have been angry with the vet for telling them that the dog was overweight and needed to be put on a diet. They were so mad they stopped going to that vet. I applaud the vet. The vet KNEW that he might lose a customer, but did what was the right thing for the dog. the right thing for him to do, would to be to cash in on all the ailments the dog is likely to have as it ages seriously overweight -- that would do him the most good. But the vet did the right thing for the dog, but lost a customer.

Not all vets are nutritionists. But most vets have more nutrition-education the the average pet owner. For them not to give a general warning, would be somewhat unethical. I think that many of us have a pretty good working relationship with our vets and they are then less likely to give us the general disclaimer and more willing to give some meat in their discussions about food.

[Draugr]

Vets are not nutritionists and from what I've heard they get a 1 or 2 credit hour course in school that is taught by reps from Hills, Purina, or P&G. Quite balanced.

Raw usually results in wonderful changes for a dog. Raw can also be fed horribly and even kill a dog. Maybe that was his concern. Given what he said though, it's just a sore lack of education. Specifically:

Then he said, "We would like to think that our dogs are like wolves but the truth is that they are not, although he does look like a wolf lol". Then he said that there digestive system has evolved different then wolves and are not designed for raw food only.

Dogs and wolves are the same species. A dog is literally the "domesticated wolf." Their dietary needs are no different at all. Their insides still work the same. They're a carnivorous animal, their dietary needs do not extend beyond what meat provides (which includes organs and raw bone).

If you aren't feeding bone supplement with a little bit of pureed vegetables or fruit for the fiber. I know some people don't like the idea of doing that and never get over the aversion to the idea.

http://www.orijen.ca/orijen/ORIJEN_White_paper.pdf

Bring this paper in for your vet to read.

~

Mine has been raw-fed since the end of February and I've noticed only positive changes. It requires more work on my end but it really isn't that difficult. Approximately 80% of the diet needs to be meat (non-secreting organs are considered meat), about 10% needs to be bone (I probably feed closer to 15% bone, but as long as your dog is eliminating just fine that's not a problem), about 5% needs to be liver, and about 5% needs to be another secreting organ. (Organ content total is about 2% of their body weight per week).

All their dietary needs as far as minerals, vitamins, amino acids, etc, are met with organs, and poultry skin like chicken (it's high in linoleic acid, organs are not). You want a variety from different meat sources - for instance, if you feed JUST beef liver it is too high in copper. Four sources of protein are ideal. I do pork, chicken, turkey, and beef since it is readily available around here.